p189362 Posted 11 January , 2008 Share Posted 11 January , 2008 Hello to you all, A general question: I have been searching for my Gt Grandfather who served in the RGA (John PARKER - Gunner 57677) and the details are on the 'soldiers' forum. My question is why and how did someone come to serve in the RGA? Was it by choice, luck or design? There you are a civvy in Islington, Nth London. It's 1914, war's declared and you decide to join up. Do you go to the nearest recruiting office that just happens to be an RGA one? Do you join the infantry and you are then posted to the RGA? Was it an elitist unit which selected recruits on merit? What I am asking is what were the mechanics of joining up and how did you end up a gunner? Any info appreciated, or any knowledge of books that might assist welcome. Regards (in confusion) Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 11 January , 2008 Share Posted 11 January , 2008 But what kind of civvie was he? I have a feeling that the RGA had a liking for men with engineeringish backgrounds - railwaymen for example. Men who had some experince of moving large machinery around. I have a photo of a Gt Grandfather in Victorian (or early Edwardian) times in the uniform of a RGA Lieutenant. He was never a regular so must have been in one of the RGA volunteer units on the Lincolnshire coast - in normal life he was a railway engineer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p189362 Posted 11 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 11 January , 2008 He was a coal porter - used to manual labour so ideal for lugging shells? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted 11 January , 2008 Share Posted 11 January , 2008 It might, indeed, be something as simple as that. Perhaps he didn't like the idea of marching. Also, fighting with the heavy artillery is a very impersonal mode of fighting: he may have been someone who 'wanted to do his bit' but wasn't all that keen on meeting the enemy face to face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p189362 Posted 11 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 11 January , 2008 It might, indeed, be something as simple as that. Perhaps he didn't like the idea of marching. Also, fighting with the heavy artillery is a very impersonal mode of fighting: he may have been someone who 'wanted to do his bit' but wasn't all that keen on meeting the enemy face to face. Guess the yellow streak runs in our family then! Seriously though, was it a conscious decision or were you just posted having enlisted in the army. Did you have a choice (at his level)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted 11 January , 2008 Share Posted 11 January , 2008 You had much more of a choice if you joined up in 1914 than if you were conscripted in 1916. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compo Posted 11 January , 2008 Share Posted 11 January , 2008 Age might have been a part for some people. My grandfather came all the way from Chile to join up but aged 40 he was right on the age limit and was a small man, no one would have him. He joined the ranks in Ireland where he knew a family doctor, one week later was accepted as a cadet officer in the RGA and started Anti Aircraft training in St Johns Wood. Graduating, he was Special Reserve of Officers RGA, he defended against Zeppellins and Gotha attacks on the homeland and then went to France where he was credited with "crashing" two planes receiving an MC. I think the answer in this case was where there is a will there is a way. In his case just to do something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidMillichope Posted 12 January , 2008 Share Posted 12 January , 2008 It may have been a case of being asked if you had a "special skill or experience" ( as centurian suggests above about engineering/railway backgrounds) . My wife's grandfather initially was recruited to the RGA and his medal roll ref says he was a "driver". He came from a farming background where he quite possibly drove heavy steam tractors not disimilar to the tractors that lugged the heavy guns around. Another example. My own granfather was in the AVC. Like you say its difficult to imagine him strolling up and saying he always fancied working with horses. His father had a horse so again I'm guessing he had some experience handling them - the recruiting process might well have firmly prodded him in the direction of the AVC. When I was looking through the service records of other AVC soldiers I noticed several had the word "horse" in their occupation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinrowlinson Posted 12 January , 2008 Share Posted 12 January , 2008 Harry, In your gt.grandfathers case, because of where he lived and occupation, I would say he went along to a recruiting office and signed on for general service. They either asked him what he thought about the RGA, or they automatically put him down for that. I could be completely wrong though. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howard nobbs Posted 12 January , 2008 Share Posted 12 January , 2008 Curiouser and curiouser Information was recently gleaned about my great uncle (I do believe) he was born in 1892, it reads as follows: Sidney Arthur Nobbs Corps Regiment No Rank Royal Engineers Transport 1030 Sapper Royal Engineers Transport 440052 Sapper Royal Garrison Artillery Second Lieutenant I wondered why he had two service No's in the same Regiment and why/how he moved to RGA. How did he become a Second Lieutenant? He lived at East Molesey, very near Hampton Court, maybe this had an influence. No other info is known. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p189362 Posted 12 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 12 January , 2008 This is really interesting, particularly the mention of age, which I hadn't thought about. Having read all the various posts, I get the impression that the general recruiting office probably decided where he should end up based on various factors. In Gunner Parkers case: He was a coal porter - used to heavy manual labour No doubt, with this work, he was used to working with horses and/or heavy machinery. Age - he was pushing 40 in 1914. Thanks for all the contributions. I'm really enjoying all the opinions and ideas. Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWSRGA Posted 12 January , 2008 Share Posted 12 January , 2008 Hello Harry, One more experience to add to the topic My father, 47167 Gunner Tom Sargent, enlisted in the RGA on 20th October 1914 at the Technical College, Suffolk Street, Birmingham. He was 17 years and 4 months old. The next day, 21st October, he went to Fort Rowner, Gosport. At the time he was working in a factory in Oldbury, Worcestershire. He gave his reason for joining the RGA as "I liked the idea of working with big horses." Takes all sorts does it not. Stan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p189362 Posted 12 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 12 January , 2008 Hi Stan, It certainly does! Appeared to be a bit of a lottery to me. I'm very envious that you have such detailed information on your father's service. Did he keep a diary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Tom Posted 12 January , 2008 Share Posted 12 January , 2008 Hello, In 1914 the units of the RGA which first deployed with the BEF were equiped with 60 pounders I have read that they were moved with team of Clydesdales. Later, of course, the RGA deployed heavier equipment and used various tractors. Old Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan jones Posted 13 January , 2008 Share Posted 13 January , 2008 Hello, In the early stages of researching my grandfather I was surprised to find that given his trade on entry to war as ' horse trainer ' that he was not automatically put in the cavalry. Knowing what I know now of his 59th Siege Battery and its use of horses it makes more sense that they enlisted him to RGA. Regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petroc Posted 13 January , 2008 Share Posted 13 January , 2008 Not sure if it helps much but Mark Severn, in his autobigrphical book The Gambardier (a pre-war subaltern in the RGA) states something along the lines that it was a waste of time and effort to employ a civilian clerk or banker as a 'mere heaver of shells', indicating that the Corps did indeed place a degree of priority on the employment of suitably expereinced and qualified men..this may mean the recruitment of either skilled men from industrial or engineering backgrounds or, alternatively, blokes used to heavy manual labour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWSRGA Posted 13 January , 2008 Share Posted 13 January , 2008 Hi Stan, It certainly does! Appeared to be a bit of a lottery to me. I'm very envious that you have such detailed information on your father's service. Did he keep a diary? Hello Harry, No he did not keep a diary. When I began I had only his Unit, the RGA, and his number. Although badly damaged his Army Records gave me his attestation details and some idea of his early postings. Keep at it. Stan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowers118 Posted 13 January , 2008 Share Posted 13 January , 2008 Gunner 20841 Thomas Edwin Hill I have been researching my grandfathers history in the RGA for some time now and always seem to come up againse a brick wall. This forum is great as it has partially answered some questions. My grandfather has a love of horses and joined the RGA in 1904, served his time and then wnet onto the reserves list. His furlough dated 15.7.1907 gave him leave from Leith Fort until 7.9.107 to travel to Burton on Trent. It was pending transfer to the reserves and he had permissio to wear plain clothes. Then we had world war 1 and from his pay book he was recommisioned on 6.8.1914 into the Royal Garrison Artilery and posted to the No9 Stationary Hospital from 5.8.1914 to 22.11.1914. Does anyone WHY THIS HAPPENED. From 28.8.1914 he was PAY IN THE FIELD and paid 8 francs a week. I can go on..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linden Posted 13 January , 2008 Share Posted 13 January , 2008 My great uncle seems to have started out with a very sophisticated early education (Holland School in Boston). There is a book about the town which describes the curriculum and I read it open-mouthed . I think his education stopped early when his father became ill and died . I believe Cyril was extremely intelligent - he developed his own remote control for his radio in the 1930's ; burglar alarms ; and was an accomplished photographer . However , as far as I know , he worked all his life selling boots and shoes . He seems to have been conscripted at ca. age 30 , and served the war as a private in the RGA . So , no horses , no heavy lifting ... I've also wondered how he was selected ; whether he chose it . Linden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 13 January , 2008 Share Posted 13 January , 2008 One of my researchees is Bertie Harding, a theatre orchestra conductor who enlisted under the Derby Scheme. He was a widower with a seven year old daughter. I wonder if he was sent to the RGA as a safer option, being further back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 13 January , 2008 Share Posted 13 January , 2008 I've just researched a Gunner of the RGA who was a painter. Not much technical background there. Perhaps they wanted him for camouflage purposes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 13 January , 2008 Share Posted 13 January , 2008 Linden There had long been a RGA volunteer unit in the Boston area (to man local coastal batteries). As I said earlier I have a photo of a Gt Grandfather in the uniform of a RGA Lt at the turn of the century. He was a Boston man through and through. The existance of a RGA unit in the vicinity may have been an influencing factor. Kate Its worth remembering that RGA units manned the guns at a number of defensive fortifications in the UK and elsewhere. A reasonably safe posting (unless a German battle squadron came over the horizon and bombarded you as did happen pre Jutland). In France being further back with the RGA could mean that you came under counter battery fire from the German equivelent. I've read an eyewitness acount of this by a member of an American heavy artillery unit - not the safest of situations. BTW just a general thought. If you were in a battery on the East coast that saw action against German warships but never went to France did you cop out when it came to medals at the end of the war? Hardly seems fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vista52 Posted 13 January , 2008 Share Posted 13 January , 2008 Hello All Re-post # 12. Tom Sargent #47167 enlisted 20th October. My g'dad and his brother RA# 396** and 41116 enlisted 3rd October. Does this show a possible approximate numbering system? My g'dad's father's occupation was Hansom Cab Driver (London), Horses !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linden Posted 13 January , 2008 Share Posted 13 January , 2008 Hi Centurion My g grandfather moved away from Boston in 1898 when Cyril was about 14 . I found the reference to Holland School in a book called (I think) "Boston , its Life and People " . The family were settled around Manchester by 1900 . Cyril did serve in France and I have details of a private diary kept by one of his colleagues and it's now in the IM . I look forward to visiting and finding it . I have no pictures of Cyril His younger brother , Cuthbert was with the Manchester Regt and he served in Lincolnshire on the coastal defences for the duration . It's interesting , I find my ancestors , the Sharps , in Lincolnshire at least back to 1700 , but , by the end of WW1 almost all of them have left . But I wonder why he was directed to the RGA Linden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benson Posted 13 January , 2008 Share Posted 13 January , 2008 Hi all I was always led to believe it was a mans physical stature that pointed them to the RGA, does anyone have attestation papers with the physical description? don't suppose the height was much different but the chest measurement could be a clue Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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