Flooding at Newport

[PhilB]

IIRC the lock gates at Newport were opened early in WW1 to flood the area. Did this change the state of drainage in the Ypres Salient? I am assuming that the Salient drained via Newport.

[Alan Tucker]

No - lagoons were effectively created as far inland as Dixmude on the Yser Canal and achieved their purpose. A good place to appreciate this is the top floor of the Trenches of Death tower near Dixmude overlooking the canal, particularly the detailed map in the big case.

[John_Hartley]

An even better place to see the likely effect on the whole sector is from the top of the Yser Tower. As an aside, the place gives a fascinating insight into Flemish nationalism and is worth a visit simply for that

John

[roel22]

Still I would assume these lagoons made it a lot harder, if not impossible, to drain the water from the salient.

Roel

[Chris_Baker]

Phil's point must be correct, surely? The rivers and streams in the northern part of the salient drained for the main into the Steenbeek. That flows north and joins the Ieperlee canal near Merkem. The Kemmelbeek flows north past Elverdinge and Boezinge and joins the Ijzer near Reninge. That is, both of the key drainage streams from the salient headed directly into the flooded area.

[stevem49]

On my last visit to Nieupoort I was chatting with a Flemish friend. He told me that as happens today the sluices were opened and shut to coincide with the tides which effectively kept the area they wanted to be flooded at a constant level. Therefore I believe that the excess water from the salient would have been let out at low tide.

stevem

[PhilB]

That is, both of the key drainage streams from the salient headed directly into the flooded area.

This makes the situation at Newport very significant for a grand offensive mounted in the Salient. So the question is - what was the state of the Newport locks in 1917? Since they were presumably within easy shelling range of the Germans, were they still functioning and, if not, were they open or closed?

[centurion]

Beneath Flanders Fields contains a good account of the innundations (there were two). A lot more than the Newport locks were involved, numerous culverts, drainage pipes and sluices were involved. Of key importance were the 22 drainage culverts under the Nieuport Dixmund railway embankment which were blocked up to stop water draining away. The technique was to open sluices at high tide and then close them so the water could not flow out and sealing up many drainages culverts and pipes. As the Germans attempted to outflank the original inundation a second one was made covering the polders between Dixmund and Ypres so that the water went right up to the Ypresian clay plain itself. The whole area stayed flooded throughout the war and at the least cannot have assisted the drainage (already poor) from around Ypre .

[Chris_Baker]

Just as an aside, serious preparations were made in spring 1918 to flood the area near Calais in case of an enemy breakthrough on the Lys. Henry Wilson was pressing Foch to do it.

[PhilB]

I googled an interesting piece on the flooding of the polders, only to find, at the end, that the contributor was one C Baker! So would you care to comment, CB, on how, and for how long, this would affect conditions in the Salient? Might it not have made pre-war records of ground conditions largely irrelevant?

[Pierre Grande Guerre]

QUOTE (Phil_B @ Jan 9 2008, 08:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

IIRC the lock gates at Newport were opened early in WW1 to flood the area. Did this change the state of drainage in the Ypres Salient? I am assuming that the Salient drained via Newport.

If you are interested in maps and photo's of the Goose Claw Sluices complex in Nieuport, please, click HERE.

Pierre

pierreswesternfront.punt.nl

[PhilB]

Thanks, Pierre. I`m having trouble getting your page up but was the Salient drainage affected?

[Pierre Grande Guerre]

QUOTE (Phil_B @ Apr 4 2008, 05:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, Pierre. I`m having trouble getting your page up but did was the Salient drainage affected?

Well, Phil the inundations drained the grounds along the Yzer front from Nieuport until Dixmuiden, leaving some dry spots like at the hamlet of Stuijvekenskerke.

Click HERE for Stuyvekenskerke.

Try next time again, Phil, and you will find a map of the inundations also. Thanks for trying to visit my site.

I hope you wil have more succes next time.

Pierre

pierreswesternfront.punt.nl

[mebu]

To confirm Chris's comment, a major scheme to flood the land in an arc from Veurne and Watten to St Omer (Colme canal/River Aa) was designed (largely by Paptain A P Macdermid, of the Indian Canal and Irrigation Service) in case of German advance to the coast, giant pumps were installed at Dunkerque (designed to pump 345,000 cubic meters sea water per 24 hours) in preparation. A trial run started on 14th April 1918 used fresh water only at the order of Foch.

A report on the results of Belgian inundations said:

"There seems liitle doubt that the Germans accepted the Yser inundation, preferring a stable flood to the tidal one which would have resulted had they destroyed the controls by bombardments.They actually constructed two concrete dams across the Yser between Dixmude and Nieuport, which could have no other purpose than to maintain the water in the Yser"

Regards Peter

[PhilB]

Thanks, I got on this time. Would you care to comment on how the Ypres Salient was affected by the inundations?

[Pierre Grande Guerre]

Phil,

As far as I know , the inundations protected only the Belgian sector of the Yzer front. The Ypres Salient is roughly ending near Bikschote and Steenstraat, south of DixMuide or Diksmuide. I don't think these inundations were of any particular influence on direct protecting the Ypres Salient itself.

[PhilB]

No, it wasn`t the protection of the Salient that was in question, Pierre. It was whether the waterlogged state of the ground there was made worse by the flooding downstream? In other words, did the flooding at Nieuport make the Salient a worse place to fight in.

[Pierre Grande Guerre]

QUOTE (Phil_B @ Apr 5 2008, 03:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, it wasn`t the protection of the Salient that was in question, Pierre. It was whether the waterlogged state of the ground there was made worse by the flooding downstream? In other words, did the flooding at Nieuport make the Salient a worse place to fight in.

Forgive me, Phil, for misunderstanding your remark. The floods has been quite succesfull. It is almost impossible to fight in fields, flooded with 1.50 m deep water over a vast polderland with under water barbed wire obstacles and even more deeper spots of the hidden narrow canals, which normally help to canalize the surplus water out from the polders.

Even in the less deep areas, it slowed anyway the movements of troops.

Belgian troops:

[Cnock]

Hi,

The Salient was not affected because it was on higher ground.

Regards,

Cnock

[Pierre Grande Guerre]

Hi,

The Salient was not affected because it was on higher ground.

Regards,

Cnock

Well the Germans were mostly on the higher grounds and the hills at the Ypres Salient. But the British were mostly not but on lower lying places, like for instance places as Mud corner in Ploegsteert Wood or near Boezinge and below Pilkem ridge.

Thanks Cnock.

[PhilB]

What would a typical height of the Steenbeek, where the British had to cross, be above sea level?

[Cnock]

Hi Phil,

I looked it up on German WWI map indicating height,

Pilckem and Steenbeek, around 10 mtrs above sea level.

Around Nieuwpoort You wil find plaind under sea level.

Regards,

Cnock

[Cnock]

correction :

Pilckem : between 15 and 20 mtrs above sea level

Steenbeek : 11 mtrs

Cnock

[bob lembke]

Well the Germans were mostly on the higher grounds and the hills at the Ypres Salient. But the British were mostly not but on lower lying places, like for instance places as Mud corner in Ploegsteert Wood or near Boezinge and below Pilkem ridge.

Thanks Cnock.

All of my father's fighting on the Western Front that I know anything about was against the French. But once he mentioned in a general sense in his oral history that he also fought the British, and he told me a specific anecdote as well. He said that he was in Flanders, and the Germans were in a higher position than the Brits, and that they had a pump for keeping the trenches drier, and that they extended the discharge hose over the lip of the trench, and, to their great amusement, the water flowed down and into the British trenches. Good old Hunnish fun!

Pop was in a flamethrower unit, but it was a Pionier unit, and sometimes they were asked to do more traditional Pionier work, which Pop felt that as a storm-trooper he should not have to do. I do not know if his unit was just present, or if they were drafted into working with the pump.

Does this ring a bell with anyone? I know that there is little detail, and it might be something that was done at several places. How common were these pumps?

Bob Lembke

[Cnock]

Bob,

I have an original pick about what You are mentionning, concerning the trenches opposite St. Julien

will look it up!

Regards,

Cnock