Turkish POW's and POW's in AfyonKarahisar

[SKBob]

Hi Dogan and Forum Members

Just dropped onto this topic. I have recently discovered that one of the chaps mentioned in our village Parish Magazine in 1919 as a returning POW was 'a stoker on submarine E15'. I haven't found out that much about him yet and I have quite a lot of stuff about the E15 story, but I would be interested in info about what happened to the crew after capture and if there are any decent photographs or lists etc. I have seen one group picture ofthe crew shortly after capture, in a 1920's period magazine but the reproduction was not good.

Dogan - are there good Turkish records - where can I enquire ?

Many thanks

Bob

[Dogan Sahin]

Hi Dogan and Forum Members

Just dropped onto this topic. I have recently discovered that one of the chaps mentioned in our village Parish Magazine in 1919 as a returning POW was 'a stoker on submarine E15'. I haven't found out that much about him yet and I have quite a lot of stuff about the E15 story, but I would be interested in info about what happened to the crew after capture and if there are any decent photographs or lists etc. I have seen one group picture ofthe crew shortly after capture, in a 1920's period magazine but the reproduction was not good.

Dogan - are there good Turkish records - where can I enquire ?

Many thanks

Bob

Bob,

Sorry about late reply...rather busy trying to earn a bob these days.

mate almost all info and photos I have have been gathered right here in this forum (had lots of links, leads, references etc) for the last year or so. I advise you to go through the topics in forum, just typing in parameters you are intrested, in search section. also, people are very hellpful. regarding crew of sub E15..who was he?

what happened in may case was that I have gone through thousands of pages and had cross references, cross checks and sometimes one prisoner from say NZ talks about a guy from E15..sı began to construct a picture.

it is painstaking job but wonderfıully satisfactory hobby for me..

By the way, not much is known about E15 ( on my side anyway) and if you have info; certainly is jewel and I should like a copy (photos too) )))).

If you want a list of all links, references, name of books though, I will be happy to put them all in one file and forward to you (that may save you alot of time and I will nedd a bit of time to do that)....

Unfortunately, I was not able to find "too much" through online Turkish archives, only some names, referrals, decisions, correspondence on individuals etc. basic government red-tape stuff. However, this doesnt mean that you cannot find info in archives, I contacted ATASE archives a few months ago and told that I was welcome to carry on research (but due to economical difficulties I couldnt)..)))))

regards

[SKBob]

Hello again

Thanks for that. At the moment I am pulling together everything I can on my local man. I am at an early stage and I think that most of the information I have is pretty general and easily found. I am hoping that maybe there are still local descendents who might have a picture or two or further documents. Haven't found any yet.

I only discovered him when I was going through the Parish Magazine covering the Great War period whilst researching for a book on the village men who lost their lives in the war and who are named on our village war memorial. There is a list of names in the publication showing everyone in the military in 1916 including Willam Howes Stoker Submarine E15, and another mention of him in early 1919 when 5 men returned to the village who had been POWs.

Like you I am a little restricted by having a job ! I do bits & pieces as and when I can. If and when I find anything that I think you may find interesting I will be back. In the meantime if you (or any other GWF member) has anything then please add something here or catch up with me.

Regards Bob

[FGT]

I was very interested to find this post as my grandfather, John Still, was a POW in Afyon from February 1916-September 1918.

He had been captured on the peak of Tekke Tepe in the Gallipoli campaign on August 9th, 1915 and was taken first to Istanbul, and then to Ankara before being moved to Afyon.

He wrote a book (out of print): "A Prisoner in Turkey" about his experiences and also published a book of poems he wrote during his time there: "Poems in Captivity" (also out of print).

Whilst in Afyon, he was first held in an (empty) Armenian house, about a mile from the railway station, which had been used as a hospital (he complains about the filthy bandages lying around in this otherwise completely bare house). He mentions another house, on the opposite side of the hill, holding nine French officers. 4-500 yards further on there was a third house with nine or ten British officers in it and about the same number of Russians. He states that there were a lot more Russian Merchant Sailor officers and engineers held in the Medrese.

Eventually in Afyon there were British, French, Russian, Polish, Ukrainian, Black Sea Greeks, Jews, Russian-Italians, Romanian, Serbian and "obscure Baltic and Eastern European people" all being held there. He makes no mention of Australian/New Zealand POWs.

In March/April 1916, following the discovery of an escape by 3 British naval officers from the French house, they were moved to an Armenian church immediately below the precipitous hillside: "Right under the Kara-Hissar, so close that a stone thrown out from above might crash through its roof, was an Armenian church. A fairly large building of grey stone with iron-barred windows and an iron door. Outside the door was a very small courtyard paved with rough slabs of stone, and along one side of the church ran a stone-flagged pathway, flanked by a narrow strip of ground on which grew two pear trees and an acacia. Opposite to the church, on the other side of the tiny courtyard, was a tall white building which had been an Armenian school." (Ref. A Prisoner in Turkey, John Still, p141)

When I last visited Afyon a few years ago I believe I located the site of this church as there is a garden in the appropriate place which has a suspiciously Apse-shaped end wall!!

I am in possession of a letter written by my grandfather from Afyon to his baby daughter, my mother, which also contains dried flowers that he picked on the hillside. I would be more than happy to provide a copy of this letter to the museum there, if they would be interested in displaying it.

I live in Turkey (Ayvalik) and am always interested in finding out more about my family history, particularly as it pertains to living (in freedom or captivity) in Turkey!

[JoMH]

FGT,

I would be interested to know whether your grandfather made his way back to freedom via Smyrna. Please see my topic about Smyrna on this website with a list of their names in post # 6.

As you will see, I found some names of soldiers (POWs) who died in Smyrna in 1918, and am curious if these men might have been known to John Still. Most of them were later re-buried in Baghdad.

I look forward to hearing from you, even if it is only to say that your grandfather had no connection with Smyrna...

Joanna

[FGT]

Joanna -

Yes, my grandfather did go to Smyrna.

After the signing of the Berne Convention, an exchange of 300 British and 700 Indian prisoners for 1,500 Turks was arranged and a medical board (two Turkish, one British doctor) sat (from 8th August 1918) to select who was to be exchanged. John Still was included as they concluded he was insane(!) and they left Afion by train on the evening of 9th September.

They stayed in Smyrna, eventually in the International College in "Paradise" (Sirinyer), until they were repatriated by ship from "Phokea" (Foca) on the 1st November, 1918.

I will write in greater detail in reply to the Smyrna topic you referred to.

FGT

[JoMH]

FGT,

Thank you so much for your replies. In light of what you have told me, I am going to look through my notes and reply to the 'Smyrna' topic - in a day or so.

Joanna

[Guest Helen H]

Hi Dogan,

as Michael said, welcome to the forum. I am sorry I didn't get in touch with you before this, I've been rather busy and haven't been on the forum much lately, so only just saw your posting. I should explain that I am an Australian writer and historian living in the town of Eceabat, on the Gallipoli Peninsula.

One of the topics I have researched happens to be Allied, and particularly Australian, POWs in Turkey. I have even been to your very nice home town.

I haven't got all my papers with me but I do have some information on Afyonkarahisar and its times as a prison camp.

From early 1915, Afyon was used as a prison camp, both officers and men being kept in houses, rather than in a proper camp with barbed wire around it. The first prisoners there were Russians, mainly officers from merchant ships seized in Turkish harbours at the very beginning of the war. They were joined in early 1915 by officers and men from the French navy, survivors of the submarine Saphir.

From late April onwards, there was a small but steady flow of sailors and soldiers captured during the Gallipoli Campaign. These included the crews of the British submarines E-15 and E-7, the Australian sub AE2, the French subs Mariotte and Turquoise and officers and men From the British, French New Zealand and Australian armies. Later, there were some prisoner captured at Kut in Iraq sent to the camp and other officers captured in Egypt, Syria and Jordan.

From about mid 1916 onwards, the town was mainly used as a camp for officers, most of the other ranks being transferred to the south to work on the construction of the railway in the Toros Mountains, though some worked in Istanbul, Sivas, Ankara, Nusaybin, and other locations. However, some remained to act as batmen, or officers servants. Some of these men were considered too weak, due to wounds or illness, to work on the railway or elsewhere.

Some of the guards at the camp were from the Turkish navy, including some officers from the Mesudiye, sunk in December 1914 near Canakkale. Other guards were reservists, men considered too old to serve at the front.

Treatment of prisoners at Afyon varied. It has to be said that one camp commander, in the latter part of the war, was hated by the prisoners as he physically and sexually abused men, and was known to arrange to have their Red Cross parcels stolen, selling the contents in shops in the town. At the insistence of the British, this officer was court marshaled after the war by the Ottoman government.

There is a large amount of material available from the Australian War Memorial about the prison camp at Afyon, including photos, diaries, and letters. This can be found at the memorial's web site www.awm.gov.au and searching the collections. Remember to search using the spelling Afion or Afionkarahisar, as that is how the prisoners spelt the town's name.

There are also a number of books that deal with POWs at Afyon. At least one was translated into Turkish just a few years ago, Stoker's Submarine, written by Fred and Elisabeth Brenchley.

Others include Guest of the Unspeakable, by Thomas White (an Australian pilot captured in Iraq); The Story of Harold Earl – Australian, by L H Luscombe (an Australian infantry officer captured at Gallipoli); Turkish Days and Ways, by James Brown (an Australian doctor serving with the British in Egypt captured in 1916); and Straws in the Wind, by Dacres Stoker, the British officer who commanded the AE2). I know there was also a small book written in French by one of the survivors of the French sub Saphir and a number of other references in English books. A British officer, John Still, also wrote a book on his time as a prisoner in Turkey, but I can't recall the name at the moment. Most of these were written in the 1920s and are hard to find.

Most of the prisoners who died at Afyon, and there were more than three, were buried in either the town's Armenian cemetery. After the war, their bodies were recovered and transferred to Baghdad, mostly to the North Gate Cemetery.

I hope this has been of some help to you in your research. Please feel free to contact me by e-mail if I can be of further assistance.

Interestingly, I have recently been contacted by a local history group from Belemedik, near Pozanti, where many of the other rank POWs were sent from Afyon in 1916 to work on the railway. It is great to see local groups looking more deeply into their history.

All the best

Bill Sellars

PS, can I ask which production company or media group you are helping with your research?

Hi Bill. I'm not sure if you're still engaged with this issue but I was interested in what you said and particularly wondered if you had more information about the local history group from Belemedik? My grandfather was a prisoner there from 1915 until 1918. He came back to Australia after the war and died in 1957. We have just handed over 200 letters that he wrote during his captivity, to the John Oxley Library in Brisbane. His youngest daughter (my aunt) is keen to visit the place where he was kept. It seems that there are still some ruins there. I'm trying to figure out if this is feasible as part of a trip to Turkey later this year. Any other info or advice would be gratefully received.

cheers

Helen H