trenchwalker Posted 27 January , 2004 Posted 27 January , 2004 id like to know if any action took place on the 3rd of may 1917. around the arras area
brindlerp Posted 27 January , 2004 Posted 27 January , 2004 "The Blood Tub: General Gough and the Battle of Bullecourt, 1917 Jonathan Walker. In the late Spring of 1917, the Allies were in crisis. Revolution had erupted in Russia and the French army was on the verge of mutiny. Meanwhile, Germany was winning the war in the air and her U-boats menaced the channel. Despite General 'Thruster' Gough's first assault on the fortress village of Bullecourt using the new wonder 'tank' and the Anzacs, it ended in disaster. On the 3rd of May Gough launched a second attack on Bullecourt which dominated the British action on the Western Front for two weeks. It was the excessive brutality and ferocity of the hand-to-hand fighting that earned Bullecourt the name 'Blood Tub'. Using unpublished documents and a wealth of eye-witness accounts, he confirms the terror rather than the thrill of a battle that must rank as one of the most savage contests of the Great War." [ http://www.firstworldwar.bham.ac.uk/publications/sw.htm ] [ http://www.westernfrontassociation.com/the...fensive1917.htm ] regards Richard
brindlerp Posted 27 January , 2004 Posted 27 January , 2004 And some more: "First World War Official Histories Volume IV - The Australian Imperial Force in France: 1917 (11th edition, 1941)" Check out > http://www.awm.gov.au/histories/ww1/4/index.asp regards Richard
brindlerp Posted 27 January , 2004 Posted 27 January , 2004 Aerial photographs courtesy of The Seventh Division 1914-1918 by C.T. Atkinson. Bullecourt: 6 April 1917 (above), 9 May 1917 (below) regards Richard
Bryn_Hammond Posted 27 January , 2004 Posted 27 January , 2004 Apart from Second Bullecourt, there were also operations endeavouring to capture Fontaine, Cherisy, Bois du Sart, Pelves and Plouvain station (Third Army Front) and Oppy and Fresnoy on First Army front. These were large scale operations - most were largely unsuccessful. 21st, 18th 14th , 56th, 3rd, 12th, 4th, 9th all took part on Third Army's front. 31st, 2nd , 1st Canadian and 2nd Canadian all operated on First Army's front.
Alan Seymour Posted 27 January , 2004 Posted 27 January , 2004 Taken from Chronicle of the First World War Volume II 1917-21 Thursday 3rd May 1917: Artois - Third Battle of the Scarpe: British Attack on 16 mile front East of Arras with 14 divisions, 2685 guns (v 1429 German pieces) & 16 tanks before dawn at 03:45 with few Third Army gains although Canadians (1259 cas) storm Fresnoy, capturing 500 PoWs. The 3rd May 1917, is covered in Chapter 20 of Jonathan Nicholls excellent book Cheerful Sacrifice - The Battel of Arras 1917. It was also on the 3rd May 1917, that my Grandfather's brother was kia (see below).
Dragon Posted 27 January , 2004 Posted 27 January , 2004 Why, Trench? What are you plotting now?! Gwyn
Paul Reed Posted 27 January , 2004 Posted 27 January , 2004 This was one of the worse days in the history of the British Army (aside from 1.7.16), the worst at Arras with, from memory, with more than 6000 deaths on the British side alone (ex. AIF). The fighting wsn't just at Bullecourt, but from Oppy Wood across the Scarpe to Monhy, and south to Cherisy and Fontaine, then finally Bullecourt. Most of the dead do not have a known grave, being on the Arras Memorial. Any particular units or places you are interested in?
Andrew P Posted 28 January , 2004 Posted 28 January , 2004 The Australian historian CEW Bean considered the 6th AIF Brigade's effort at the 2nd Battle of Bullecourt as one of the top 4 or 5 actions involving Australian troops in the war.
trenchwalker Posted 28 January , 2004 Author Posted 28 January , 2004 Why, Trench? What are you plotting now?! Gwyn dont worry im not plotting anything just the blokes photo i have got GRISTWOOD who we now think is a relation of another relation of a reenactor friend by the name of GRISTWOOD who may be a relation of signials friend also by the name of GRISTWOOD. we thind its the 3rd battle of scrape as he was with 16th dive and on the 3rd and 4th the battle was thought and on the 3rd griswood died and he is on the arras mem.
trenchwalker Posted 28 January , 2004 Author Posted 28 January , 2004 Any particular units or places you are interested in? ok 3rd army 7 corp 18th div 54th MG COMP on the 3rd of may 1917
TimPowell186 Posted 15 October , 2009 Posted 15 October , 2009 Very old thread I understand, but I did visit Arras memorial to find the name of my Great Grandfather Frank Pearman. He was lost to the north of Cherisy on 3rd May 1917. We had a walk out and I hope to return to Triangle wood next year. We will remember him.
phil andrade Posted 15 October , 2009 Posted 15 October , 2009 This was one of the worse days in the history of the British Army (aside from 1.7.16), the worst at Arras with, from memory, with more than 6000 deaths on the British side alone (ex. AIF). The fighting wsn't just at Bullecourt, but from Oppy Wood across the Scarpe to Monhy, and south to Cherisy and Fontaine, then finally Bullecourt. Most of the dead do not have a known grave, being on the Arras Memorial. Any particular units or places you are interested in? Six thousand deaths, excluding the Aussies ! That shocks me : it implies 20,000 casualties. I knew it was a notorious episode, but hadn't reckoned on casualties on that scale. The first day of Loos, and, of course, the Somme ; September 15th on the Somme, and March 21st 1918...these all cost monstrous numbers of lives. I suppose we must not forget Jutland. We don't hear much about May 3rd 1917, though, do we ? Time to do some reading. Phil
JimSmithson Posted 16 October , 2009 Posted 16 October , 2009 Phil Not a great deal said about April/May 1917 at all. A short bloody campaign costing more casualties per day on average that either The Somme or 3rd Ypres. It is getting more attention now but your reading list will still be short. A search on here though will be worth your while. Jim
J Banning Posted 18 October , 2009 Posted 18 October , 2009 Hi Phil – As Jim says, considering the importance of the battle there is surprisingly little written about it. 3 May 1917 was a truly dreadful day for the British as the Germans use of von Lossberg’s new defensive fighting tactics really did for us. In a shameless piece of self promotion I should add that Peter Barton and I have been working (on and off) on a new panorama book about the Battle of Arras for the past couple of years. The catchily titled “Arras - The Spring 1917 Offensive in Panoramas including Vimy Ridge and Bullecourt” will be out in June 2010. So, if you can wait that long then I would hope that the book would give you a good insight into the fighting at Arras. Cheers Jeremy
TimPowell186 Posted 20 October , 2009 Posted 20 October , 2009 Delighted to hear of a new book; I thoroughly enjoyed Cheerful Sacrifice by Johnathan Nicholls and while I was in France spent 40 euros on Somewhere on the Western Front Arras 1914-1918 by Jean-Marie Giradet. If anyone has any other reading matter they could recommend would they please let me know Many thanks Tim
phil andrade Posted 20 October , 2009 Posted 20 October , 2009 The catchily titled "Arras - The Spring 1917 Offensive in Panoramas including Vimy Ridge and Bullecourt" will be out in June 2010. So, if you can wait that long then I would hope that the book would give you a good insight into the fighting at Arras. Cheers Jeremy Jeremy, that will prove a great comfort to me : in late May next year my younger daughter is getting married in Cyprus....when I return to London I will be looking forward to a quiet bivvy and a good read, and your book will be my treat ! Phil
evolution Posted 25 October , 2009 Posted 25 October , 2009 If you work out percentages of troops who took part, the highest British losses were at Aubers Ridge, 9th of May 1915. Think I bin ere be4!!
Paul D Kendall Posted 25 October , 2009 Posted 25 October , 2009 Tim, My book 'Bullecourt 1917' will be published October/November 2010. Kind regards Paul
JimSmithson Posted 2 November , 2009 Posted 2 November , 2009 If you work out percentages of troops who took part, the highest British losses were at Aubers Ridge, 9th of May 1915. Think I bin ere be4!! I don't think anyone has written anything here to dispute your comment. I stand by my comment in the earlier post, made to emphasise the lack of material on a very bloody campaign and making a comparison with two other better known battles. Jim
rockbabe Posted 10 August , 2010 Posted 10 August , 2010 old thread i know but as a new member of the forum i too am very interested in 3 May 1917, as it was when my great uncle was kia, around Fontaine les croisille, will definately be having a look at some of the books you have mentioned. if anyone has any photos of this area i would love to see them
BroadwayWarMemorial Posted 7 June , 2014 Posted 7 June , 2014 On 3rd May the 1st Warwicks attacked the chemical works at Roux near Arras. Pte 9572 Alfred Frank Phillips (1887-1993) of Broadway was captured during the attack and was imprisoned at Cassel.
phil andrade Posted 10 June , 2014 Posted 10 June , 2014 One of the very worst days of the war, according to CWGC data. Only July 1st 1916, September 25th 1915 and March 21st 1918 exceeded it in terms of British Empire deaths in one day. Phil (PJA)
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now