Mick D Posted 2 January , 2008 Share Posted 2 January , 2008 My father in law has a book on Durhams past. One of the photographs is a WW1 tank (I think female) apparently parked in Wharton Park, Durham in 1920. The text identifies the tank as no. 2783, it further states that it saw action at Vimy & Arras. Has anyone any information on either the siting of the tank, or it's military career ? Mick D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 2 January , 2008 Share Posted 2 January , 2008 The tanks who saw action at Vimy and Arras were Mark I and Mark 2; from other posts on this subject of "presentation" tanks, they were all Mark IVs - certainly these had 2000 serial numbers so that would make sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 2 January , 2008 Share Posted 2 January , 2008 The tanks who saw action at Vimy and Arras were Mark I and Mark 2; "presentation" tanks, were all Mark IVs - certainly these had 2000 serial numbers Some presentation tanks (a very small number) were Mk III However there is no record of any Mk I or II presentation tanks, given this and the number quoted it is highly unlikely that the tank saw action at Arras or Vimy This was however a common 'spin'. The Mk IVs that toured in Canada and the USA were likewise frequently referred to has having seen action at Arras (the officer in charge however had in deed seen action in a tank in this battle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick D Posted 2 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 2 January , 2008 What information (if any) can be gained from its number. I've checked the small number of tank books I have and can find no record of the tank by number alone ! Mick D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Repulse Posted 2 January , 2008 Share Posted 2 January , 2008 There is one in Ashford (Kent) town centre..... (Not my picture) http://www.flickr.com/photos/rrolliver/1411402409/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 2 January , 2008 Share Posted 2 January , 2008 From its serial number you can tell what mark it was and in many cases what sex. It may also be possible to tell where it was built. 2783 was a Mark IV Female built by Metropolitan. The majority of presentation tanks were Mk IV Females. As no Mk IVs took part at Arras or Vimy then if the number is correct the info about it having taken part in these battles is hype - par for the course I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick D Posted 2 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 2 January , 2008 What was the purpose of displaying them ? recruiting, war bonds or simply spoils of war. Mick D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 2 January , 2008 Share Posted 2 January , 2008 Tanks were used 1917/18 for selling war bonds and a number of Male Mk IVs toured Britain for this purpose (males used because the sponsons had a door through whuich the public could more easily access the bonf sellers) After the war all those towns that had participated in the fund raising were allocated a tank (usually but not always a female Mk IV). These were distributed 1919 /1920 maininly being used a commemorative additions to war memorials (its actualy slightly more complicated but its late) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick D Posted 2 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 2 January , 2008 has any research been done on each tank, I own The Tanks at Flers, and note that it wasn't one of the ones mentioned in that book. Mick D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 2 January , 2008 Share Posted 2 January , 2008 Yes there are a number of people trying to trace which tank went where etc. The tanks at Flers were Mk Is which had long been replaced/destroyed/broken down etc by the time the Mk IV tanks were issued as presentations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks3 Posted 4 January , 2008 Share Posted 4 January , 2008 Hi Mike, I have been trying to put together a list of the presentation tanks and dates of the Tank Weeks. I have no details on the Durham presentation tank so would welcome it if you could post a copy of the photo to which you refer. I can say that according to my records though, tank 141 Egbert visited Durham in January 1918 for its tank week. I believe there is reference to this visit in local papers of the time. If you should come across any more specific information on this visit (ie exact dates of the visit) I would be grateful if you could let me know of your findings. Tanks3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John84 Posted 4 January , 2008 Share Posted 4 January , 2008 Egbert the Tank was in Durham Market Place from the 1st April, 1918 and was visiting the City for three days to promote War Bond Savings. I have the write-up about in somewhere and I am 99% sure I also have the article for the tank at Wharton Park, Durham in 1920. I will have a look for them when I get a minute, but you all may have to bare with me as my fileing system is not the best in the world. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 4 January , 2008 Share Posted 4 January , 2008 Its referred to in the Northern Echo which gives accounts of how much money was raised in each town. The Northern Echo reported that in Jan 1918 Egbert visited Middlesborough, Darlington, Durham and Bishops Aukland (in that order) spending a week in each town. The tank was in Blackburn on 29th Jan 1918 Unfortunately there is a clash of references as a Lancashire paper has Egbert in Preston (with photos) on the 21st Jan 1918! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 4 January , 2008 Share Posted 4 January , 2008 I shoul add thatits not unknown for Papers and/or council records to get it wrong. A number of references have Egbert in Hartleypool in the 1st full week of Feb 1918 but the Northern Daily Mail and a photo of the Mayor and others on top of the tank clearly shows Nelson's home service number Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John84 Posted 5 January , 2008 Share Posted 5 January , 2008 Here you go chaps, report on Tank in Durham from the Durham Chronicle, Friday, 5 April, 1918. I will try and find the report for the Tank at Wharton Park, Durham in 1920....I know its in the house somewhere![/size] John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Bennitt Posted 5 January , 2008 Share Posted 5 January , 2008 How were these tanks transported -- by rail to the local station and then under their own power to the display site, or were there road tank transporters in those days (I can only imagine something like a traction engine towing a trailer)? cheers Martin B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 5 January , 2008 Share Posted 5 January , 2008 Martin By rail to the nearest station and then under their own power. There are photos of various touring tanks either at stations or (in the case of Julian) on train The same applied to the presentation tanks - the drill was arrive on low loader railway truck. De train and swing out (or in the case of the MkIIIs refit) sponsons. Drive to presentation point where the Lt in charge presents the tank to the local dignitaries and makes speech (it looks as if there may have been stock speeches) whilst gearsmen and driver are inside the tank removing the drive chains. Now some presentation tanks were subsequently moved (albeit short distances) This includes the tank at Wharton Park and one at Worcester. How this was acheived I don't know. John - how odd as the Northern Echo reports it as visiting on Durham's tank week in January. Another one to add to the list of contradictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks3 Posted 5 January , 2008 Share Posted 5 January , 2008 John, I too am confused. The Northern Echo shows, as centurion has pointed out, Durham tank week as being in January. In addition, in the copy article you have posted reference is made to an address by Durham War Savings committee in which they say Durham county is the first county to have a campaign of this type and how anxious they were to make it a success. Tank weeks had been held frequently since the end of 1917 and so that doesn't make sense whereas it would if the tank week were indeed in January. Can you please check the date. Also I look forward to seeing your post of the presentation tank. Hope there is a photo Thanks tanks3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 5 January , 2008 Share Posted 5 January , 2008 From what I've seen Wharton Park wasn't opened until after Durham's tank was presented. It must therefore have had a temporary resting place before being moved to the park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John84 Posted 5 January , 2008 Share Posted 5 January , 2008 Unfortunately when I printed the article off about the tank been at Durham the date of the publication from the Durham Chronicle is not shown, it is on the paper but not on my print out. However I do make a point of every print out I take off from the readers I write the date and paper down on the back of the print out. On the back of this one I have put 'Durham Chronicle, Friday 5 April, 1918. When I next go down the library I will check the story again and try and print it out with the date shown on the paper. I will post the other article about the Tank at Warton Park when I can put my hands on it.When I printed both stories off I did so purely out of interest, but I wasn't looking for Tank stories at the time. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John84 Posted 5 January , 2008 Share Posted 5 January , 2008 Wharton Park goes way back before the Great War years, the Durham Miners' Union organised the first Gala, which was held in 1871 and this was held in Wharton Park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 5 January , 2008 Share Posted 5 January , 2008 Possibly there was a post war refurbishment. What I found was a short account opening (reopening?) it as a memorial park after the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick D Posted 6 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 6 January , 2008 I've been on the wrong shift to look at this thread for a couple of days, but the information supplied by your good selves is fantastic. I have access to the book & photo, but my scanning & posting skills are poor. I'll look at the photo again and try to pin point where it was, as Wharton park is on a hill, with very narrow paths that a tank would be unable to climb, which would therefore restrict its possible parking sites. Mick D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks3 Posted 6 January , 2008 Share Posted 6 January , 2008 John, That would be brilliant. Do you have access at your Library to check the Northern Echo story, when you visit? That would put the lid on it then, if that's not too much trouble when you next visit. Thanks in anticipation Tanks3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 6 January , 2008 Share Posted 6 January , 2008 There were other presentation tanks in the area South Park County Durham - no 2881? Bishops Palace Park Bishop Aukland The Lawe South Shields Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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