MACRAE Posted 1 January , 2008 Share Posted 1 January , 2008 I was looking at some of my Macrae,Mcrae,Rae medals and i noticed one had been discharged disabled and died shortly after being discharged. Would this not entitle him to be added to the CWGC list as he has died as a result of wounds. M2-077091 Pte William Gray McRae ASC Landed France 1915 discharged 31st oct 1917 died shortly afterwords. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Morcombe Posted 1 January , 2008 Share Posted 1 January , 2008 Sounds highly likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hywyn Posted 1 January , 2008 Share Posted 1 January , 2008 Hi Dan It may be worth submitting to CWGC if you have 'official' documents showing his service and that he died as aresult of wounds. A death certificate would be the best form of evidence. There is a sub forum in the Cemeteries and Memorials Forum that deals with possible non commemorations. Terry Denham would guide you through and put him forward should you so wish. A lot of times names are on but misspelt etc. I've put his number through Geoffs Search Engine but it had not turned him up. Hywyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 1 January , 2008 Share Posted 1 January , 2008 Dan Without doubt, you will need the death certificate. it is the one piece of valid documentary evidence. The cause of death will need to clearly indicate that it was related to his service. if it is a "died of wounds", then it is likely to be clearly stated. If the death certifciate is more vague, then you would probably have to find evidence, most likely from service papers, of the cause of discharge and then link this to the cause of death. There will also be a need to link the man on the death certificate to the man who served. I am asking the moderators to move the thread to the "possible non-commemorations" sub-forum. Hope that's OK with you. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KevinEndon Posted 1 January , 2008 Share Posted 1 January , 2008 Dans man is not on SDGW which means I didn't pick him up in the search for the new project. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 1 January , 2008 Share Posted 1 January , 2008 SDGW does not contain men who died after discharge and so he would not appear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACRAE Posted 1 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 1 January , 2008 The only document i have is for the 14-15 star states had he lived , its from the record office at woolich dockyard Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 1 January , 2008 Share Posted 1 January , 2008 How do you know he died of wounds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACRAE Posted 2 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 2 January , 2008 On the back of a bit of paper gives some details as when he joined when he was discharged due to wounds and he died shortly after discharged from army. Medal document for the 14/15 star states HAD HE LIVED so army must have been informed for pensions i assume. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 2 January , 2008 Share Posted 2 January , 2008 Thanks, Dan. However, because he was discharged due to wounds, that is no indication that he died due to those wounds - from what you have told us. He could have been run over by a bus or fallen down stairs. You will need the death certificate to see if it indicates any connection to service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hywyn Posted 2 January , 2008 Share Posted 2 January , 2008 He has around 22 pages on Ancestry Pensions. Address = 32 East Leven St, Burnt Island, Scotland. States that he was discharged due to 1) Myalgia and 2) contusion of the hip(right), Although he had had scarlet fever since previous army service ( 10 years in RGA up to 1914 when he was discharged. He rejoined some months later). The hip bit is deemed 'aggravated by war service' and although, I can't read it properly,it looks like it says he was blown up (would a doctor used such a general term?) I have downloaded relevant pages that may help (images1535 and 1545-47 should anyone want to look it up without going through them all) It takes ages to dowload hence why I haven't done the lot. All it needs now is see what the DC states. Hywyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veklee Posted 2 January , 2008 Share Posted 2 January , 2008 hi terry , just read this thread about discharged soldiers who have died , have death certificate here for boy wounded in the head 1914 discharged to pension 1915 /6 and dying 1916 cause of death as follows 1 gunshot wound of head decompresion jacksons epilepsy 2 operation collapac ? so should he be on cwcg ? as he died of wound recieved be it 18 mths later all his papers are on ancestry cheers barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hywyn Posted 2 January , 2008 Share Posted 2 January , 2008 Dan Went to have a look for the DC refrence on Ancestry and I see that it's England and Wales only. PM me your email and I'll send you the downloaded stuff. Hywyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 2 January , 2008 Share Posted 2 January , 2008 so should he be on cwcg ? Barry Yes, he should. If you post his details, we can double check that he isnt. Then, if you wish, we can submit his name for inclusion to CWGC on your behalf. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veklee Posted 2 January , 2008 Share Posted 2 January , 2008 Barry Yes, he should. If you post his details, we can double check that he isnt. Then, if you wish, we can submit his name for inclusion to CWGC on your behalf. John hi john thanks for ure reply details as follows 5654 pte william henry watkins 1st hampshire died 21 aug 1916 at 4th london general hospital (kings college ? ) lived 3 prarie st queens road battersea cheers barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 2 January , 2008 Share Posted 2 January , 2008 Barry As John says, on the info you have given, I would say he would be likely to be accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 2 January , 2008 Share Posted 2 January , 2008 Barry He does not appear in CWGC and so, if you wish GWF to put his name forward, email me scans of the documents you have including the DC and it shall be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 2 January , 2008 Share Posted 2 January , 2008 (edited) Barry Nope - I can't find him either. If you'd like the Forum's "In From the Cold" project to take this forward on your behalf, would you please PM or email Terry. He's definately going to need a copy of the death certificate from you. John (Note to self - must learn to type quicker . might beat Terry one day.....) Edited 2 January , 2008 by John Hartley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veklee Posted 2 January , 2008 Share Posted 2 January , 2008 Barry Nope - I can't find him either. If you'd like the Forum's "In From the Cold" project to take this forward on your behalf, would you please PM or email Terry. He's definately going to need a copy of the death certificate from you. John (Note to self - must learn to type quicker . might beat Terry one day.....) hi john sent terry copy of death certificate, if you have time look w h watkins up on ancestery , long time soldier had qsa and 14 trio, he tells how he was hit in the head by a spent ?? bullet at plugstreet on 8th dec 1914 might have been spent but it did this old solydier a lot of damage cheers barr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 2 January , 2008 Share Posted 2 January , 2008 Barry Received and in hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veklee Posted 2 January , 2008 Share Posted 2 January , 2008 Barry Received and in hand thanks terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John84 Posted 2 January , 2008 Share Posted 2 January , 2008 No matter how I try I can not get my head round how some men/women are entitled to be commemorated by the CWGC and those who are not. The way I am reading it a man that is discharged through wounds, then as Terry puts it is 'run over by a bus or fallen down stairs' etc is not entitled to be commemorated by the CWGC.However, one of my local lads was discharged from the Army through wounds on the 27/2/1918 effective from 22/5/1917, he was discharged to Class P, being no longer physically fit for war service. This same lad returned to civilian life and took to his old job down the mines, but due to his condition he later had to take a job as a road sweeper. Sadly in the summer of 1920 he took his own life by poisoning himself. Now this is were I am a little confused for he has both a war grave and is commemorated by the CWGC on their web site.Please forgive me for withholding this lads name I would hate to think that my post led to his headstone been took down and his name removed from the CWGC database. [/size] John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 2 January , 2008 Share Posted 2 January , 2008 John Fully understand why you wouldnt want to mention the name. I agree that it's a puzzle. Committing suicide well after discharge is certainly not usual grounds to get commemorated. Perhaps something very helpful to his family in the way his doctor worded the death certificate? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John84 Posted 2 January , 2008 Share Posted 2 January , 2008 John I have the full report on this lads death, he took a bullet to the chest on the Somme in 1916, the bullet had to be left were it was, doctors agreed that any to attempt to remove it could be life threatening. He had attempted to take his life once before because of the pain the bullet caused him, and his next door neighbour used to hear him crying at night, he was heard to say on numerous occasions, ‘This German inside me will kill me yet.’ In my eyes he was as much a casualty of the war as if the bullet had killed him outright on the Somme, 1916.[/size] John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorrie Posted 2 January , 2008 Share Posted 2 January , 2008 I was looking at an old post of Terry Denhams today and I think I am right in saying that exservicemen who died up until 31st August 1920 immaterial of cuase of death ie suicide, DOW illness etc. were entitled to a CWGC stone or a private one if so wished ( for which relatives had to pay) . The reason beingg as that the war did not officially end until that date. 11/11 1918 being an aristice. Terry will correct me if I am wrong Cheers Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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