CLXXII (172nd) Briagde RFA

[Yorts]

Hi,

I've recently acquired a 15 trio to a soldier in the above unit (172nd Brigade RFA). Initial research reveals that the unit was broken up in January 1917, and was not replaced by a unit of the same numerical designation until late that summer. However, the CWGC gives the following details about my man:

Name: JOLLY

Initials: E (believed to be Ernest)

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Gunner

Regiment: Royal Field Artillery

Unit Text: 172nd Bde.

Date of Death: 19/02/1917

Service No: L/21277

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: III. A. 28.

Cemetery: BAILLEUL COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION (NORD)

From this I concluded that he must have been wounded whilst the Brigade was still in formation, but died in a CSS / Hospital in Baileul before he could be assigned a new unit. Is this a fair assumption?

Does anyone know why the Brigade was disbanded? Did it suffer heavy casualties (my man being one of them) and thus was deemed not worth re-forming? Any information on the unit and if possible Gnr. Jolly would be much appreciated. I intend to dig the war diary out at the PRO, but would like to go fore-armed so as to make the most of my search. Also if anyone knows the location of his death plaque or a photo it would be much appreciated.

Best regards,

Alex.

[rflory]

"Soldiers Died" (the book) indicates that L/21277 Gunner Ernest Jolly enlisted in Bordon, Hants and died in France on 19 Feb 17. Whereas the CWGC uses 'died' in all instances, this book differentiates between killed in action (k.i.a.), died of wounds (d. of w.), and died (d.) and in Jolly's case he is listed as "d." (died).

172nd Brigade, RFA was broken up in the 1917 reorganization of divisional artilleries in France in which each division which previously had four brigades afterwards had two brigades. In the 36th (Ulster) Division 153 Brigade, RFA and 173 Brigade, RFA remained with the division afterwards and 172 Brigade, RFA and 154 Brigade, RFA were broken up. 172 Brigade, RFA was broken up between 13 and 31 January 1917 with D Battery broken up to complete D (H.)/153 and

D (H.)/173 to 6 howitzers each; C/172 was broken up to complete D (H.)/77 and

D (H.)/108 AFA Brigades to 6 howitzers each; A/172 became C/77 AFA Brigade; and B/172 became C/108 AFA Brigade.

All this information would seem to indicate that Gnr. Jolly took sick, probably in the last days of the existence of 172 Brigade, RFA, was hospitalized and died of his illness after the breakup of the brigade. Regards. Dick Flory

[Terry Denham]

Your assumption that he was sick at the date of the unit's disbandment is probably correct and so he was never reassigned.

Although the CWGC website does not differentiate between the various causes of death as yet, the old CWGC registers do sometimes contain the information. Unfortunately, it is not so in this case and no 'cause' is published. Where this information exists, it is contained in CWGC's main database and may be available on the web at some time in the future.

Although SDGW does usually contain this info, it always needs confirmation as it is often wrong and even the location can be in error with men listed as dying in F&F whereas they died at home after being returned with wounds.

[Yorts]

Thanks for the replies.

Best Regards,

A. Jolly

[Yorts]

As a regular artillery unit, 172nd Brigade in January 1917 (before disbandment) would have had a standard RFA capbadge and shoulder titles, correct?

rgds,

Alex.

[rflory]

Correct. Dick Floyr

[Yorts]

Thanks.

AJ.

[OyiboJohn]

CLXXII (172) Brigade Royal Field Artillery must have re-emerged with 75th. Division of XXI Corps in Egypt/Palestine. My grandfather, Lieutenant Howard Ellis RFA (SR), was posted to this unit 21/11/18 on the disbandment of his Medium Trench Mortar Brigade. On 2/12/18 he was posted to 391 BG. I can't find this Brigade or does this refer to a battery No.?

Amendment: this was 391battery/172 brigade. When he joined the battle for Palestine was almost over. Jerusalem had been secured and the division had 'retired' to rest at Tyre after the battle of Sharon.