Jump to content
Great War Forum

Remembered Today:

kallag

Pegasus Gun ?

Recommended Posts

Ithklur

The carriage with shield is undoubtedly a Krupp mount. These pieces could digest even 15-cm field guns

During the great war the imperial German army mounted several naval guns on these

IMHO it´s not too likely the IWM would hide such a precious item like a "Koenigsberg gun" far from Africa in their stores since 1918 unnoticed

But otherwise.....expect the unexpected

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gruntie

Hopefully this is the right place..............this is a picture of a field gun at Entebbe in Uganda, taken by my father in 1960/61. I remember climbing all over it when I was a kid, and it was always just the "german gun". It's still there, but with a diorama around it now:

post-97753-0-62633000-1363545867_thumb.j

It's been variously decribed as a "Pegasus gun", or it came from the Konigsberg. Or the Emden.

This is a picture I took of the Pegasus gun at Fort Jesus, Mombasa, and it isn't one of them

post-97753-0-12899800-1363545865_thumb.j

It doesn't look like a Konigsburg gun either. Most naval guns of the period are quoted at around 4"/100mm, and this looks considerably larger than that.

Any ideas?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SteveE

I'm no gun expert but it does look very similar, if not the same, as the one shown on this undated postcard which describes it as "Gun captured from Germans in Bukoba, now in Kampala". Has the gun been moved and the field mounting added sometime in the intervening years or are they two different guns?

Steve

post-1432-0-62944600-1363602805_thumb.jp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gruntie

Thanks Steve. I wasn't aware of the gun in Kampala. It certainly wasn't there in the 60s - or I don't think so anyway.

These are a couple of shots from the Matson collection showing it was there, as a field gun, in 1936, and quoted as being from the Emden:

post-97753-0-96630000-1363642898_thumb.j

post-97753-0-81516300-1363642913_thumb.j

The field mounting looks heavy, specialised, and all-of-a-piece. Possibly beyond what was available locally at the time. And why do it? In, presumably, the inter-war period.

I can't tell if the gun in your pic matches this, although it seems close. But it does seem to match the gun removed from the Emden and now on display in Sydney. But, in that case it couldn't be "captured in Bukoba". The Emden was captured/sunk the other side of the Indian Ocean.

The plot thickens..........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gruntie

Thanks Holger. With some further browsing it appears that:

1) the gun in Entebbe is as Holger says, a Feldkanone L/35, and was never mounted on a ship.

2) The gun shown in Steve's pic is from the Konigsberg, was captured at Mwanza, not Bukoba, and is currently in Jinja.

(and probably has been there some years, which is why I don't remember it in Kampala).

So everyone was wrong: Matson alone for nearly 80 years!

But: how and why did the L35 get there?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kallag

Thanks Harry,

I will contact the IWM tomorrow and see if there is more information available about the gun in the picture.......can it be that the gun shield and wheels of the IWM and Bagamoyo guns were standard/stock items shipped to where ever there was a need?

Would be very interesting to hear what the IWM has to say about the gun in their picture.

Kallag

Well, I did make contact with the IWM and received the following answer:

Thank you for your enquiry.

The gun in the photograph is no longer held my the museum, I am afraid. According to our curator who is responsible for ordnance, it was disposed of in the 1920s or 1930s, to where I am uncertain.

Moreover, there is some uncertainty as to what the piece actually was, but it bears some resemblance to a British 4.7inch QF Field Gun.

Unfortunately, I cannot say anymore than that.

Craig Murray

In a fantastic new thread on the Konigsberg Guns titled Missing Gun from the SMS Konigsberg on the Axis Forum, Chris Dale reports that Bob Wagner received the following more comprehensive reply from the IWM:

"Thank you for your enquiry about the fate of the IWM’s Konigsberg gun. The Museum’s accession register states that the 4.1 inch (105mm) gun from the German Light Cruiser Konigsberg was acquired from the Admiralty on the 24th July 1918, catalogue number 140.

During the years 1917-1924, the Museum had enough storage accommodation for its exhibits, firstly in various stores scattered around London, and then, from 1920 at Crystal Palace. However, when the Crystal Palace lease expired in 1924, the Museum was offered vastly reduced accommodation in South Kensington and was forced to dispose of a large number of exhibits that it no longer had the space to store or display. It seems the Konigsberg gun was one of these.

According to the file EN1/1/TRO/047 the gun was transferred to RNVR Hove for display on the parade ground there on the 17th April 1928. That is all the information I can provide, I’m afraid - I hope that this is helpful."

So, the gun in the IWM picture (which incidentally I noticed when visiting the IWM website on 12 Jan to check on their opening hours), is indeed then a 'new' Konigsberg gun. Would it not be fantastic if this gun was not disposed of and is still in storage somewhere....wishful thinking I suppose!!!!!

Kallag

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bushfighter

In The Navy Everywhere by Conrad Cato (http://archive.org/d...verywhere00cato ) on page 158 is a footnote. This refers to the Konigsberg gun captured at Bagamoyo and it states:

In the autumn of 1918 this gun was exhibited in the Mall near the north door of the Admiralty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kallag

Thanks Harry

This is a most significant observation.

It has all along been assumed that the gun on display in Mombasa is the 'Bagamoyo Gun'. That now appears not to be the case. If it is indeed the Bagamoyo gun which ended up in England, then the challenge will be to establish the origen of the Mombasa gun. Wow, never a dull day in The Great War Forum.

Kallag

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Darloboy

I am currently reading, "The Lake Steamers of East Africa" by L,G. (Bill) Dennis.

.

In the section on Lake Victoria  he mentions the 4' guns of HMS Pegasus .

"three were sent to Kisumu, but only one is known to have fitted to the flotilla leader Winifred".

.

It may be nothing but...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...