First American Casualties of the War

[Guest John Orfei]

I have just finish reading the book - Yanks by John Eisenhower (not a bad read) although it is not a comprehensive narrative of this Great War. It deals with the American Expeditionay Force(AEF) in 1917 to the war's end in late 1918.

On page 65, it states the following; "Although barely noticed in an Army gearing up for the largest war it had ever fought,a significant event occurred on September 5, 1917: the first American casualties of the war. The victims were members of the 11th Engineers, a railroad unit, which had gone to work in the British zone as early as August 1917. On that morning, in the vicinity of Gouzeaucourt, near Cambrai, a German artillery shell exploded near the men as they worked and two of them were wounded. Since they were not part of an American division, however, dubious honor has remained largely unnoticed."

My question, what are the names and ranks of these troopers and what British units were they working for or with at the time of this incident. Also were there any British Soldiers killed or wounded.

Thankyou, John

[Andrew Marshall]

Possible:

ALEXANDER RENNIE

Sapper

229064

19th Light Railway Operating Coy., Royal Engineers

who died on

Wednesday 5 September 1917 . Age 29 .

FAUBOURG D'AMIENS CEMETERY, ARRASPas de Calais, France

V. J 25

Regards

Andrew

[paul guthrie]

I think I have this information at home. I thought our first killed were killed on the French front and one of them is a Kentucky man, will take a look but will be tomorrow before I can post anything. By the way, cannot remember the specifics but I think Eisenhower made many mistakes in this book.

[paul guthrie]

OK , here are the answers from American Armies And Battlefields IN Europe ( 1938 ) American Battlefields Monuments Commission.

First casualties serving at the front, Sgt. Matthew Calderwood and Pvt William Branigan, 11th Engineers wounded by shellfire 15 9 17 near Gouzecourt serving with the British.

First killed by enemy action 1st Lt. William Fitzsimmons, PFC Rudolph Rubino Jr, Pvt Oscat Tugo and Pvt Leslie Woods, killed by bombing at Base Hospital #5, British, near Dannes-Comiers 14 9 17.

First KIA Corporal James Gresham, a Kentuckian, Pvts Thomas Enright and Merle hay, 1st Division killed in a German trench raid near Bathelmont in Lorraine 2 11 17.

[Paul Reed]

Wasn't there an article on this in the American WW1 journal in the 1980s Der Angriff? I have some copies somewhere - perhaps you do, too, Paul?

[Andrew Marshall]

I take it that the American government doesn't have a version of CWGC, does anyone have a searchable database for non commonwealth casualties?

Regards

Andrew

[paul guthrie]

Paul I do not have it and have never seen it.

Andrew we do have an equivalent, Anerican Battlefields Monuments Commsssion which published the book I referred to. It's dry but quite good in detail and the maps in the text are excellent and the beautuful fold up maps inserted are great color maps. You can find these at fairly low price.

What we do not have is on line information on casualties for either war. For instance I feel sure we must have had a death by accident and/or disease before those I mentioned but I have no clue where to look for that. That's another subject but you may see US WW1 death figures as high as 110,000 but those count non combat deaths, those are about 55,000, less than Canada or Australia. Nonetheless many here believe we made the difference militarily, I emphatically disagree, see my article on this on WFA site.

[CROONAERT]

The A.B.M.C. website has an online database of some soldiers who died and who are buried in A.B.M.C. cemeteries (WW1,2 and Korea as well as mention of others).This is searchable by surname and has detail similar to our CWGC site.

A CD-ROM is also available from Bruce Cramer ,entitled "WORLD WAR 1 RECORDS. U.S.ARMY & NAVY CASUALTIES/UTAH SERVICE RECORDS". This lists (and is searchable),by state,approx.100,000 casualties (incl.wounded).There are also 9000 photos of these casualties.The navy section is particularly interesting as it mentions exact (and I mean exact - almost post mortem detail!)cause of death,dates adresses,vessel served on,etc.

Though incomplete,I thoroughly recommend this CD as a companion to SDGW.

Dave.

[CROONAERT]

The American Battle Monuments Commission website ,with database can be found at http://www.abmc.gov

[Somme1916]

John,

I've been so wrapped up in the British Army in the Great War I hadn't paid much attention to my own country's ivolvement in WW1 so I'll have to do a little catch up.

As Dave recomended the ABMC is a good place to start but as you will see on their WW1 page over 100,000 of American's 130,000+ dead were repatriated home to the US. Unlike the UK, in wars past, the US policy waqs and still is repatriation, if the family wishes. This means the odds are against you finding them listed or buried in Europe.

I do have access to the "United States Army in the World War 1917-1919", written by the U.S. Army's Historical Department in 1948 at the office. I will check it out tomorrow to see if I can turn up anything for you.

Cheers,

Jon

[paul guthrie]

Jon has anticipated some of what I had to say. Of the men I had mentioned only two turn up and they are buried in an American Cemetery in France, Bony, Somme American Cemetery. The number of 130,000 I think is quite high even counting those who died in the USA. 55,000 is about the most you can attribute to combat deaths, KIA or DOW.

Thanks Croonaert.

[paul guthrie]

Well Jon the site does say 136,516 US died, must have been a lot of accidents and disease becasue I think the real figure for combat deaths is closer to 50,000 than even the 55,000 I mentioned earlier.

Also says 33714 are buried in Europe and 101143 brought home. This was the family's choice. Funeral/undertaking/coffin industry ran interesting ad campaigns to influence the choice.

[Simon Furnell]

Although no expert,many Americans were KIA during WW1 before the expedition force arrived,serving with British and Canadian battalions.

I have read of Americans that went over the top on the 1st of July 1916 and were wounded.

It seems that,much like WW2,many men came over to the UK and joined up for a war that was not really anything to do with them.

I seem to remember seeing that my Great-Grandads MGC company took American machine gun companies into the line for a couple days at a time during 1918,after he was killled in April.

The exact date i am not sure of,or whether there were any casualties.

I will have a look and let you know.

I was interested to see your figures on American casulties Paul.

I have always read that American KIA on the western front,were 150,00.

Regards.

Simon.

[Andrew Marshall]

Thanks for the link to that site Dave it looks good.

I have a local casualty who served in the American Expeditionary Force

Pte. Arthur Millsted

"Mr and Mrs Millsted of Strood Hill, Strood have received news of the death from mustard gas poisoning of Pte. Arthur Millsted their son who died at a hospital in France on the 6th September at the age of 28. The deceased lived with his parents in Gravesend at the New Inn, Milton Road and in Cobham Street before he went to Ipswich, Massachusetts at the age of 19. Here he became a naturalised American and when America entered the war he made five attempts to join the American Army before he was accepted. He went to France with the American Infantry but never had any opportunity of seeing any of his relatives in England. When he was gassed it was his third time in action. He was buried beneath the American flag in a new American cemetery in France and soldiers and nurses paid last honours to him and floral tributes were placed on his grave. His brother Mr Harry Milsted keeps the New Inn in Milton Road."

I also have a photograph of him that appeared in a local paper the Gravesend Reporter.

If anyone is interested in seeing a picture of the New Inn pub here is a link

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/lordofchaos/grav...end/newinn.html

If anyone has any further details on this man would you please pass them on to me.

Regards

Andrew

[Frank_East]

From US Records and The US Army in World War 1

The first three Members of the AIF to be killed in action on November 7 1917 are remembered by the Memorial at Bathelemont (12km north of Luneville, Meurthe et Moselle Department) which is about 4 kms north of the Marne /Rhine Canal.

The memorial which was erected by the French just after the war consists of an 18 foot column displaying a cross which looks like the Cross of Lorraine.

Looking at the records it appears that none of these three dead; Gresham, Enright or Hay were interred in France while two of the first Members of the AIF to be killed by enemy action on Setember 4 1917 namely Fitzsimmons and Woods were finally interred at the American Somme Cemetery at Bony in Plot B but not together as you might expect.

Incidentally,for the statistics of US AIF losses etc in Europe the best reference is the above source.

[paul guthrie]

Frank I think I remember reading that this memorial referenced their burial there and still does though they are gone.

Same source I mentioned above American Armies and Battlefields In Europe 1938 which is really the source gives 52947 for US battle deaths.

[paul guthrie]

Frank I think I remember reading that this memorial referenced their burial there and still does though they are gone.

Same source I mentioned above American Armies and Battlefields In Europe 1938 which is really the source gives 52947 for US battle deaths.

[Christina Holstein]

Gresham, Enright and Hay were originally buried at Bathelemont but the bodies were later transferred back to the States. The current monument is not the original one, which was destroyed. It was also moved from it's original place (in a farmyard) to a site at the edge of the village. The deaths of Gresham, Enright and Hay are still commemorated there each year.

Christina Holstein.

[Guest John Orfei]

As continuing in the same line,General Bordeaux's conducted part of the service for these three American Troopers(Gresham,Enright and Hay) and had made the following remarks;

"The death of this humble Corporal and these Privates appeals to us with unwonted grandeur. We will therefore, ask that the mortal remains of these young men be left with us forever. We will inscribe on their tombs, here lie the first soldiers of the United States to fall on the fields of France for justice and liberty. The passerby will stop and uncover his head. The travelers of France, of the Allied countries, of America, and the men of heart, who will come to visit our battlefields of Lorraine, will go out of their way to come here to bring to these graves the tribute of their respect and gratitude. Corporal Gresham, Private Enright, and Private Hay, in the name of France I thank you. God Receive your souls."

[andigger]

Another aspect of researching US casualties is that many of the records are housed at the state level rather than a national level. This is particularly important as many National Guard units were mobilized for the conflict. The archives in St Louis is infamous, but I have found quite a bit of information on the soldiers I am researching from the Virginia state archives.

BTW.... of the 13 men listed as KIA on my local memorial only one died a legitimate combat death. The others died of disease or in accidents.

Andy

[Arnie]

[bTW.... of the 13 men listed as KIA on my local memorial only one died a legitimate combat death. The others died of disease or in accidents.

Does the USA include those who died due to the influenza pandemic?

arnie

[Neil Burns]

Hi Arnie,

The criteria for inclusion varies with each town but normally anyone who died in service, whether from disease, accident or combat, is included on the memorial.

A number of memorials in my neck of the woods (Northern New Jersey) have every member of the town who served, not just casualties.

Take care,

Neil

[andigger]

Does the USA include those who died due to the influenza pandemic?

Arnie - Again this is more dependent on the state rather than a national level. In Virginia accidents (car wrecks, drowning) and sickness (flu, pneumonia) are included as causes of death on military records.

Andy

[Arnie]

Andy

I mention the 'Flu' pandemic simply because I read it came across the pond with infected 'Dough boys'

Arnie

[andigger]

Andy

I mention the 'Flu' pandemic simply because I read it came across the pond with infected 'Dough boys'

Arnie

Arnie - Understood. I was just pointing out that the Virginia records do get specific in terms of medical causes of death. Rather than just saying illness, when known they will include the specific disease or other cause.

Andy