Bathe Posted 17 December , 2007 Share Posted 17 December , 2007 We have a photo taken during WW1 of my wife's father in uniform with an Irish Harp cap badge, but he was a Londoner through and through with no Irish connections at all in the family. He was known to have served at Ypres at one time (and was gassed) and again in Salonika. Family legend has it that he was a rifleman (and possibly a sniper)Unfortunately, his surname is so common that are nearly 600 medal cards with his less common first name, not counting those with just the simple initial. Until we can identify his regiment, we have little chance of narrowing the field. Any ideas? The photo is too poor to scan, but we could probably compare any illustration from a website with the original picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 17 December , 2007 Share Posted 17 December , 2007 Hi Siegebatteries, There are two types of harp used on cap badges, the angel harp and the harp of Erin. They have been used by various regiments, and just because he was a Londoner dosn't mean he served with a London regiment, it wouldn't be unusual for him to have served with an Irish regiment. Post the pic on the forum, there's plenty of eyes around. In the meantime have a look here cheers, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 17 December , 2007 Share Posted 17 December , 2007 Post the picture as Jon says and we should be able to identify it. Mind you, the 1/18th Battalion London Regiment, London Irish Rifles, served on the Western front from March 1915 and the 2/18th in Salonika. Their badge was a crowned harp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bathe Posted 17 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2007 Thanks for that. Attached is the best scan we have managed in case any one can work out the badge. From the website you indicated, the badge appears to be of the 18th County of London Battn (London Irish Rifles). How would this unit appear on the medal cards = there appears to be only County of London Yeomanry or London Regiment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 17 December , 2007 Share Posted 17 December , 2007 The London regiments usually appear as such on the MICs they sometimes have a Bn number. But this fella is not of the 18th Bn London Regiment, their badge was black and had no scroll. The badge on the pic looks more like Connaught Rangers or Tyneside Irish. Any chance of a close up of the badge, cheers, Jon The London regiments usually appear as such on the MICs they sometimes have a Bn number. But this fella is not of the 18th Bn London Regiment, their badge was black and had no scroll. The badge on the pic looks more like Connaught Rangers or Tyneside Irish. Any chance of a close up of the badge, cheers, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bathe Posted 17 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2007 "Tyneside Irish" ? again how do they appear in the MICs? There doesn't appear to have been Walter Taylor with the Connaughts in the MICs The cap badge won't enlarge without going blurred - the picture posted is the clearest we can get Peter The London regiments usually appear as such on the MICs they sometimes have a Bn number. But this fella is not of the 18th Bn London Regiment, their badge was black and had no scroll. The badge on the pic looks more like Connaught Rangers or Tyneside Irish. Any chance of a close up of the badge, cheers, Jon The London regiments usually appear as such on the MICs they sometimes have a Bn number. But this fella is not of the 18th Bn London Regiment, their badge was black and had no scroll. The badge on the pic looks more like Connaught Rangers or Tyneside Irish. Any chance of a close up of the badge, cheers, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 17 December , 2007 Share Posted 17 December , 2007 Tynside Irish would appear as Northumberland Fusiliers, (24th -27th Bns) cheers, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 17 December , 2007 Share Posted 17 December , 2007 Doesn't look like a London Irish badge with those scrolls - as jay dubbya says Connaught Rangers or Tyneside Irish looks the most likely. If not Connaught Rangers as you say then Tyneside Irish would show on MIC's as Northumberland Fusiliers. JD - 18th Londons badge could be in white metal, blackened gilding metal or brass although I have never seen a brass one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 17 December , 2007 Share Posted 17 December , 2007 JD - 18th Londons badge could be in white metal, blackened gilding metal or brass although I have never seen a brass one. always thought that the white metal one was post Great War, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bathe Posted 17 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2007 We have another picture - like the first it is a copy made 15 years ago and not that clear - but it shows my wife's father with two of his brothers. Walter, the chap we are interested in, is in mufti but with a lapel rosette and badge which appears also to be the Harp badge (in "white", well not black, metal). Of his brothers, the one standing served with Anzac forces, and the other one seated was with Army Ordnance Corp, and then with Labour Corp. The two in uniform are wearing currently unidentifiable medal ribbons - do I presume that this picture must be after the issue of Pip, Squeak & Wilfred and therefore post-war? My father-in-law was gassed early in the war but returned to duty. We don't think he was invalided out before the Armistice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 17 December , 2007 Share Posted 17 December , 2007 Did Walter have any middle names? I don't have my books with me at the mo, not sure of the collar badges. There's nothing to say that Walter hadn't changed regiments, especially if he had been sent for R&R after being gassed only to return to a different unit .I'm not too clued up on uniforms, but I'm sure the black buttons on his tunic are significant...a rifle battalion? Would say post war due to the medal ribons, cheers, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bathe Posted 17 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2007 The three brothers from left to right were Walter Archibald Taylor (b1895 Lewisham) Charles Stewart Taylor (standing) (b1888 Greenwich) Stanley Victor Taylor (b1898 Brockley) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 17 December , 2007 Share Posted 17 December , 2007 there's me looking at the wrong fella...Walter appears to be wearing riding boots and breeches....don't suppose you have a marriage certificate for him? Tis proving to be a tough nut this one. Too many possiblities on the MIC, suppose we need to look at what units served in Salonika to narrow it down a bit, cheers, Jon ps. if you want to send me a high res copy of the first pic, I'll see if I can enhance the badge, tomfoolery42@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 17 December , 2007 Share Posted 17 December , 2007 2/18th served in Salonika, Egypt and Palestine. If he had been wounded while with 1/18th then it is possible that once recovered he may have gone to the 3/18th which stayed in UK and supplied drafts for the 1st and 2nd battalions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bathe Posted 17 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2007 Dear Jon We do have Walter's marriage certificate, but he didn't get wed until 1930 - he was described then a motor mechanic, as he was on his death certificate in 1954 - the whole of that side of the family were/are mad keen on cars, motorbikes and virtually anything mechanical! Am trying to do something with the first pic but, as I said, it's a photographic copy and maybe not of the original either: I don't know where that is. It is out of focus and I've tried scanning at different dpi and taking it into Photoshop but with no success - at least not beyond what I've posted. Still I'll another go and send it direct - maybe tomorrow Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bathe Posted 17 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2007 This is the best I can do with a hi res close up of the cap badge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 17 December , 2007 Share Posted 17 December , 2007 Given that this chap is wearing black buttons, and that the badge to my mind does not have a scroll (which might indicate Connaught Rangers, but not Tyneside Irish, as these men wore the harp as part of the shoulder title only, with NF standard grenade badge), this would be a London irish soldier... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 17 December , 2007 Share Posted 17 December , 2007 If only you could see me eating my hat Well it was a merry walk up the garden path only to walk back down again.....on seeing the last pic I'd have to agree with Peter, there's no scroll on the badge with leads me to say that it is indeed the 18th County of London Battalion (London Irish Rifles) which narrows the MIC down to 2 men as far as I can see..here and here During the early spring of 1917 the TF was allocated with a new series of numbers the block 590001 - 610000 was allocated to the 18th C of L Bn. The first link would suggest that this man didn't go overseas until after the number change as he doesn't have a pre TF number, at some point he changed regiments, perhaps because of an injury. The second link would suggest that this fella went overseas prioir to the number change as he has both his TF numbers. Hope this helps narrow things down, cheers, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 17 December , 2007 Share Posted 17 December , 2007 Jon, I guess we've all spent too much time squinting at out of focus images! Good fun though, eh! Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 17 December , 2007 Share Posted 17 December , 2007 Now yer see it...now yer don't. It's funny how my eyes always seem to focus better later in the day....oh, and welcome to the forum Peter, tis good to have another badger around these parts, cheers, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 17 December , 2007 Share Posted 17 December , 2007 Thanks Jon - I can see this is going to be addictive...Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bathe Posted 18 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 18 December , 2007 Certainly this forum is addictive - I've hardly done anything else in the past week since joining! (well, the weather is not conducive to doing much else anyway). Everyone who has answered my posts has been most kind and thoughtful and we have already found out so much about my grandfather and my father-in-law - and their brothers - which we did not know before Many thanks to everyone who's offered their thoughts on this particular conundrum - the soldier with the Harp Cap badge - now that the possibles have been narrowed to just a couple of MICs rather than several hundred, we shall be investing in the National Archives' on-line service and let you all know the result. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 18 December , 2007 Share Posted 18 December , 2007 Peter - glad to have helped in some way Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bathe Posted 18 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 18 December , 2007 Right. Having sorted out some potential MICs, I have started looking and have found a very likely one - with 14/15 Star, BWM, VM, and a SWB. What I need now is the meaning of some of the notes in the Remarks section : Dis 392 XVI 15 4 19 591618 The last set of figures was his last regimental number and the Dis 392 is obviously the King's Reg "causes of early discharge..." Is the XVI a reference to a particular cause for discharge? what about the 15 4 19 (in fact the 4 could be an H) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 18 December , 2007 Share Posted 18 December , 2007 392 xvi is no longer fit for service - some body may be able to fill the other blanks for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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