The Buffs Database is complete

[Michael]

Simon

I'm telling lies. I have Charles Robinson in my rolls. He was a Special Reservist who was called up to the 1st Battalion and went overseas to join them on 9/11/1914 with a batch of 98 others. The 1914 star roll notes "79103 P3 Company". Does that mean anything to you?

Also George C Adams was a Special Reservist who joined the 1st Buffs on 2/11/1914 with a draft of 126 others. His 1914 star roll states "86193 174 Company"

Also (didn't look very well didI?!!!!) I have Edward Black down as BACK. Another Special Reservist who was in the 2/11/1914 draft. His 1914 star states "86194 3 PROV COMPANY".

Also (this is getting embarrasing) Robert Pittman was in the 9/11/1914 draft. His roll states "88195 174 tunnel company a/sgt".

I think that's it

Mick

[Simon Jones]

Mick

Thanks very much - no need for embarrassment as I have checked my database and for some reason I said both Stone and Crawford were KiA when in fact neither were…

I have now traced the unburnt record for Stone. Plenty of miners were returned to units but it is unusual that he was returned after he had been transferred and renumbered. That he was 1st Bn makes sense as the Buffs draft was numbered adjacent to one from 1 KSLI who were also 8th Division.

P3 = 3rd Provisional Company RE, which was a Home Depot company.

What you have on Adams, Black & Pittman also makes sense, including that they were Reservists, and has confirmed that they were posted to 174th Tunnelling Company.

There have been some threads about ‘Sapper Dorothy Lawrence’. She was a journalist who managed to get to France in 1915, obtained an other ranks uniform and in early September hid in a ruined cottage in Albert for ten days with the connivance of Tommy Dunn. He seems to have attempted to get her into the front line by parading with the tunnellers night shift but she was arrested and detained at St Omer until the opening of the Battle of Loos. She was then escorted back to the UK and made to sign an undertaking not to communicate her story, at least during the war. She published an account in 1919 under the title ‘Sapper Dorothy Lawrence’ which included a letter from Dunn vouching for the truth of her story as an introduction, although she undermined her credibility by implying that she had in fact got into the trenches. She describes Dunn as a Lancashire miner but, apart for some hospital records, attempts to locate him have not been successful.

Many thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.

Simon

[shaymen]

Mick

Slightly belated congrats, great achievement and well done.

Not sure if you are on the look out for pics of Buffs men, but heres one from my local paper.

Would appreciate any info you may have on him (I've got the usual, CWGC, SDGW, census)

Anything additional would be great. He's part of a future memorial research project I am just kicking off.

Thanks

Glyn

[Michael]

Glyn

I always like to receive extra info especially photos as they give life to the database. Webb joined the Buffs in late Sept / early Oct 1916. I wonder if he was transferred into the Buffs because that isn't a Buffs cap badge. His only service overseas was with the 6th Buffs. He was killed when the Battalion were in Hook Trench. The Germans were firing heavy and light trench mortars from the southern edge of Bois du Sart. Four others were killed including the double bar MM winner Kingsford.

Here is his grave

Good luck with the project. Give me a shout if you want a larger photo for it.

Can you let me know which newspaper it is from

Mick

Edited 11 January , 2008 by Michael

[shaymen]

Mick

Well, as you say its certainly not a Buffs capbadge - looks a bit Royal Fusiliers to me. I still need to go through the papers again as the first time round I was only concentrating on my village, may find out a bit more on him.

It is from the Herts and Essex Observer which is based in Bishop's Stortford and covers the surrounding villages and towns (Sort of North East Herts and North West Essex)

Would appreciate a larger photo - will PM my e-mail to you.

Thanks very much for the assistance.

Glyn

Just noticed one other Buffs chap on the mem, not got much on him, wonder if you might have, especially as he's an officer

Name: MILLARD, JOHN BARNARD

Initials: J B

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Second Lieutenant

Regiment/Service: The Buffs (East Kent Regiment)

Unit Text: 8th Bn.

Secondary Regiment: Honourable Artillery Company

Secondary Unit Text: formerly

Age: 26

Date of Death: 25/06/1917

Thanks again

Glyn

[Michael]

The Battalion were in trenches north west of Battle Wood on 25/6/17 when the Germans opened very heavy fire on their area which lasted an hour. The majority missed the front line but the rear parties suffered heavily. Millard was the Intelligence Officer. He was killed by a shell and 2 other officers were considerably shaken before being wounded by another shell a few minutes later.

He doesn't appear in the Buffs Army List so I can't help with commissioning date. He was awarded the BWM and VM

Mick

[shaymen]

Mick

Again many thanks for that information, it all helps add to the research.

Just had a look through my newspaper pics and found a bit more Buffs stuff.

I'm not looking for any info on these chaps but they may be of some use to you.

Firstly, Cecil Patrick Riley, he was one of 3 brothers who died during the campaign.

From the newspaper - Their third son, Private Cecil Patrick Riley of the Buffs (East Kent) Regiment, died of dysentry in Mesopotamia, on May 13th 1916. "Pat" as he was affectionately known hereabouts, had been a bugler in the Herts Yeomanry before the outbreak of war.

Also came across a couple of Buffs mentioned in the casualty lists -

A.Rider 241081 from Little Chesterford, near Saffron Walden Essex, Killed.

Sergt GW Ireland 1244 from Ware, Herts, previously reported as missing now reported as prisoner.

Hope the above may add a little to your database

Best Regards

Glyn

[Michael]

Glyn, thanks for the info

Mick

[John Garnett]

John

I look forward to the website, please keep me posted with the address. Jones joined The Buffs in the last week of March 1916 although he may have been a Derby Scheme man who had been on reserve for a few months before being mobilised. He died during the succesful attack on Ration Trench (between Thiepval and Pozieres) over the night of 3/4 August 1916 so he won't have been in France for long. This attack was in stark contrast to their debacle at Ovillers a month before. The artillery barrage was better and they used the fire and movement tactics that they had trained for since July 3rd. If you want more info on the attack let me know. I'd also be happy to help with any other Buffs you have on your memorial.

Mick

Mick,

That's really useful thank you. There are obviously a few Buffs men from Sturry. I had planned to put more detail in the website about what was happening at the times of their deaths but, with Kew being as it is at the moment, I'm going to publish the basic details as they are and add to them later. Its my first go and I hope to publish this weekend.

One of the others is G/9687 John (Jack) Farrier, 6th Buffs, died Saturday 7th October 1916.

Thanks,

John

[Michael]

John

I estimate that Farrier joined the Buffs in March 1916 although he may have been a Derby Scheme man who had signed up earlier and placed on the reserve to await his mobilisation.

He was one of 129 killed during the attack on 7/10/1916 for the Transloy Ridge. Most of these have no known graves but 25 of them lie at Bancourt with Farrier.

Here is Farrier's grave

If you want a larger image or more info on the attack give me a shout

Mick

[John Garnett]

Thanks Mick,

I have a picture already, also with bird's muck on but in a different position!

Details of the attack would be useful. Would you mind if I slotted it into my website, with the correct acknowledgement to you of course?

John

[Mike Cross]

In my Gravesend Hospital Nurse's Album is an undated entry by F Brissenden, who describes himself as 'Late Buffs', with an address of Elwick Cottages, Ashford. He has recorded a couple of humorous entries, including:- "Some men never arrive at a definite conclusion until they die". My assumption is that he was an injured soldier who had previously served with the Buffs.

[Michael]

Mike

This is Frederick Brissenden. He joined The Buffs as a Special Reservist in September 1914 having had previous service with the Regiment (enl late 1890/early 1891). He went overseas on 27/12/1914 to join the 1st Battalion. He was discharged with wounds on 4/4/1916. He had served with the Mounted Infantry of the 2nd Buffs in the Boer War and was invalided home from there.

Mick

[Michael]

John

In order to press on in the winter of 1916 Rawlinson needed to take the Transloy Ridge. The 6th Buffs were tasked with taking part of Bayonet Trench NE of Gueudecourt. The ground was sodden due to the weather. The Battalion was in a forward slope and attacking a trench which was also in a forward slope - a recipe for disaster. Fifteen minutes before they were due to leave their trenches the Germans opened a barrage on their lines. As soon as they attacked and advanced down the hill they came under machine gun fire. At the bottom of the valley there was a little bank where they took shelter. Any attempts to move on were broken up. The CO, Lt Col Cope, went forward and ordered the men to dig in where they were. He was then shot in the chest. A group of men shielded him as the MO attended to him. The MO was killed and the Battalion withdrew to their original position at dusk.

Mark Connelly and I visited the scene during the research for his book. The bank where they took shelter can clearly be seen and we managed to pinpoint the position where Cope was injured. A member of the forum has a relative (Tamblin) who was awarded the DCM here. I had some photographs but can't find them. Please use whatever info you need for your site

Mick

[Jonathan Saunders]

Mick - I have sent you an email as well but thinking about it, it may be interesting for others with Buffs interests for me to ask my question here:

I am after information on 270760 Sgt LJ Betts MM. Also, his brother, whom I believe was 270991 JP Betts MM of same Bttn (and previously 2355 1/1 WKY) – do you have any information on either man? They both served with the 10th Bttn.

Regards,

Jon

[Jonathan Saunders]

Mick - I have already found out some more info. LJ Betts was originally WKY as well as his brother - the family were from Otham, near Maidstone. He appears to have been commissioned into the RAF but not sure when - possibly post-Armistice. JP Betts was kia in F&F in 1918 and part of his service record survives in WO373.

[Paul Michael]

Mick & Jon - well done with the great efforts on the compilation of your Kents databases.

Do you by any chance have anything on my grandfather Pte. Henry Clarke (b. 1894 Hoxton) who passed through both the Buffs and then Royal West Kents? I have his Certificate of Transfer to the Reserve which tells me he attested 10/12/1915 and was called up 26/9/1916. His BWM & VM were awarded for service in 5th Cheshires (Regt no. 243035) the medal roll shows he also served with 15th Cheshires. He was wounded but survived the war.

Would be great to know what were the Kent battalions he may have trained with.

Paul

[Jonathan Saunders]

Paul - do you have reason to believe he served overseas with the West Kent's? The Home "training" bttns for West Kent's were 3rd (First Reserve) and 9th (Second Reserve) Bttns. You also had 2nd and 3rd Line Territorial (Reserve) Bttns and the 99th Training Bttn (which was briefly known as 12th Bttn). These were all the Home service Bttns I can think of but men also served in Home Garrison Bttn and Eastern Command Depot, amongst other places.

Regards,

Jonathan S

[Michael]

Paul

Can you tell us what it is on the MIC?

Mick

[Paul Michael]

Unfortunately Henry Clarke's MIC was not very informative. Just the Cheshire Rgt mentioned with his number 243035. Perhaps he was only overseas with the Cheshires? He joined under the Derby Scheme, only being called up in September 1916. The story is that he had a sick widowed mother to support. He was a Londoner living in either Shoreditch or Walthamstow at that date - but for some reason must have chosen the Buffs. (I assume he had that choice). There has always been a family tradition that he was in the Buffs and stationed in Kent, although all the evidence from his medals had pointed to the Cheshires. When his Transfer to Reserve paper turned up recently it did confirm the Buffs as his first posting and added the RWS as a unit he also served in.

I have photos of him in 'hospital blues' - if only he had had his cap on!

One other family story is that he was put on a wagon driving course, made easy as the trusty old horse knew exactly what to do.

[Jonathan Saunders]

... and added the RWS as a unit he also served in.

So Royal West Surreys and not Royal West Kents?

He could have been rebadged to the Cheshires from the Buffs upon arrival in France - this is when many men were "transferred" to different regiments depending on vacancies to fill!

Regards,

Jonathan S

[Paul Michael]

Jon

Sorry, my typo, definately Royal West Kents.

Paul

[Michael]

yes, I agree with jon. often the derby men were mobilised to second line tf units and then went overseas to join the service or regular battalions(may be different for other units), so he must have been rebadged before he went.

I can imagine that old horse saying "here we go again"

mick

[Jonathan Saunders]

Mick - did you find anything on the Betts brothers?

[mags43]

I've now completed the transcription of the BWM and VM rolls for the Buffs. After a five year slog I now have the 1914 star, 1914/15 star and SWB rolls. Combined with the MIC index, SDGW/CWGC and various other tables there are now 1,032,880 cells populated on the database. I am confident it includes every man who served overseas with the Buffs.

Now I need to decide what to do with the database. Do I publish it, put on the internet, etc? In the meantime, I have previously offered lookups for completed rolls and am now offering the same for the BWM / VM roll. There are obviously a lot of men who transferred into the Buffs from other Regiments / Corps so if you send me your email address I can supply a small spreadsheet with your area of interest. Do not send me a private message as the inbox gets filled up quickly. Look ups for individuals can be posted on this thread.

Mick

Dear Micheal I was wondering if you can help me Iam looking for relation William J Wain Buffs, all I know he was wounded around 1915/1916 if that helps hope you can shed light on my relation Mags43