Smith64 Posted 10 December , 2007 Share Posted 10 December , 2007 Hi, I'm sorry to ask this as I believe this has already been explained other times, but I've read some old thread and I haven't understood exactly why sometimes ther is no MIC for some officers... For example, there is no MIC listed in the National Archives for the writer J.R.R. Tolkien (yet he got some medals, as I've read they were auctioned just some days ago! He was Second Lieutenant in the 11th Lancashire fusiliers), and it's missing also for Lieut. Geoffrey B. Smith of 19th Lancashire fusiliers, who died of wounds in the Somme. Why such MICS could be missing? Thanks for the patience... Elena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 10 December , 2007 Share Posted 10 December , 2007 they are often "missing" due to typo's this could be smith for you http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...;resultcount=44 not the spelling Medal card of Smith, Geoffry Bache compared to CWGC SMITH, GEOFFREY BACHE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith64 Posted 10 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 10 December , 2007 Oh, that's him, thank you very much! Maybe Tolkien too was misspelt (although I tried the common error "Tolkein" and it didn't work...) Thanks again Elena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 10 December , 2007 Share Posted 10 December , 2007 Ive had a quick look and cant see him (tolkein) - maybe wearing a ring and invisible... who sold the medals ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punjab612 Posted 10 December , 2007 Share Posted 10 December , 2007 Elena Googling I came across this item from the Worthing Herald about the auction http://www.worthingherald.co.uk/whatson/To...isit.3536140.jp My readin is that only the chess set is Tolkein not the medals. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 10 December , 2007 Share Posted 10 December , 2007 depends how you read it - would thought if sold it would be by a large medal house Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith64 Posted 11 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 11 December , 2007 Yes, I think you are right...Although the way it's written is not very clear, I don't think that Tolkien's family would have sold his medals (except maybe that he did so himself, perhaps for charity purposes, in the last years of his life)...And probably we would have heard something more about those medals, if they really belonged to him. Anyway, as he spent several months in the Somme, I think he should have some medals too? There's a MIC for his brother (Hilary Tolkien) but not for him...Strange, unless his name was misspelt in some unusual way. Elena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 11 December , 2007 Share Posted 11 December , 2007 It is possible that it was "removed" prior to transcription,or before release to the public domain,or just damaged & unreadable as some {a small minority} were Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 11 December , 2007 Share Posted 11 December , 2007 would expect that he would be on the actual medal rolls though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhclark Posted 16 December , 2007 Share Posted 16 December , 2007 Elena, here is the medal card for Geoffrey Bache Smith:http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=5419663&queryType=1&resultcount=1 So at least you've found one! Can't find Tolkien's though. Perhaps the surname is mispelled badly, and also I wonder whether he served under an alias? Noel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 16 December , 2007 Share Posted 16 December , 2007 Officers had to claim their medals, so if they never bothered then they will not have an MIC. According to the Artists Rifles journals, in the alte 1920s, more than 30,000 officers had still to claim their medals. From memory, and having done some work on Tolkein for someone many years ago, he never claimed his medals, which is why you can't find him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith64 Posted 18 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 18 December , 2007 Elena, here is the medal card for Geoffrey Bache Smith:http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=5419663&queryType=1&resultcount=1 Thanks Noel, Coldstreamer too had already found that one for me (and I've downloaded it). I couldn't find it because the name was misspelt ("Geoffry" instead of "Geoffrey") Thanks anyway for you help! Elena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith64 Posted 18 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 18 December , 2007 Officers had to claim their medals, so if they never bothered then they will not have an MIC. According to the Artists Rifles journals, in the alte 1920s, more than 30,000 officers had still to claim their medals. From memory, and having done some work on Tolkein for someone many years ago, he never claimed his medals, which is why you can't find him. Oh, I see! I thought the MIC would exist anyway, even if one didn't get his medals, but obviously I was wrong! How strange that J.R.R. Tolkien didn't claim his own anyway , I wonder why (especially as his brother did get his own medals, and they probably happened to talk about them, so I don't believe he just forgot or didn't think of it)...But obviously we will never know. Thank you Paul! Elena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost in Tilloy Posted 19 December , 2007 Share Posted 19 December , 2007 Hi Elena's last comment has struck a chord with myself. I researched one officer in the past who died on home service. He never served abroad but he does have an MIC which is blank except for his name, rank & regiment. I accept that he must not have qualified for medals. However, I researched two other officers who also have MICs that also contain only name, rank and regiment and no medals are mentioned, but the difference between them and the one above is that the men served and died in at the front in France. One was a 2nd Lt in the 4th Royal Scots attached to the 9th Royal Scots as an Intelligence Officer who arrived in France 4/11/1915 and then DOW 19/04/1917 [he even gets a mention in the War Diary] the other was a 2nd Lt in the RFA who arrived in France 22/09/1917 and was KIA 5/04/1918. It has always puzzled me as to why these men didn't have any medals. I had assumed, like Elena, that the blank card had meant that their family hadn't claimed their medals, but from what has been said this might not be the case. So to clarify from what has been said so far in the thread: a. If an officer didn't claim their medals then there wouldn't be an MIC. b. A blank MIC might mean they served at home throughout the war and didn't qualify for medals. c. A blank MIC for officers who did serve in a theatre of war, but whose medal card still doesn't mention any medal award, might mean that they, or their family in the case of a deceased officer, did not claim any medals. Is that correct? d. Or there was some other unknown reason that, although they served in a theatre of war and an MIC exists, they didn't qualify for medals. e. In some cases the medal cards simply haven't been fully filled in? Regards LIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 19 December , 2007 Share Posted 19 December , 2007 Medals to deceased officers were issued automatically to their next of kin; they did not have to be claimed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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