theresa musgrove Posted 6 December , 2007 Share Posted 6 December , 2007 Is there any significance in RFA regimental numbers in terms of helping to identify units/brigades? My grandfather Thomas Brown Nicholson enlisted in Durham and served in France from the end of August 1915. His number was 26282. He was not in the160th Wearside Brigade. Grateful for any advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyes Posted 6 December , 2007 Share Posted 6 December , 2007 Is there any significance in RFA regimental numbers in terms of helping to identify units/brigades? My grandfather Thomas Brown Nicholson enlisted in Durham and served in France from the end of August 1915. His number was 26282. He was not in the160th Wearside Brigade. Grateful for any advice. Hi Mimi Right now my only advice is 'don't give up'! There IS some significance in the service number. My granddads service number (735730) tied him to the 267th (Cheshire) Bde, RFA. But, as I found this fact out some time back, I am not any longer sure exactly how!! Curse my failing memory. I will scrabble away at this in my own clumsy way (God help us all) and if any of the real research savvy Pals are following this, please point the way! Courage Mimi. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 7 December , 2007 Share Posted 7 December , 2007 735730 is a Territorial number so is attributable to a man being with the number group of a particular brigade at a given date. 26282 is not a TF number and thus is not directly attributable to a brigade etc. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theresa musgrove Posted 7 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 7 December , 2007 Thank you for that: I am determined to identify his brigade one way or another. I do wonder how these numbers were allotted at enlistment ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theresa musgrove Posted 7 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 7 December , 2007 Thanks: I hope that I find someone with a similar number who can help work out how these numbers were allotted ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 7 December , 2007 Share Posted 7 December , 2007 There is some method in the madness of RFA numbers .. but only in certain cases - this is probably not helpful but will deal with one possibility ... the short answer is that such a low number does not look a useful guide ... for a longer answer .. If, for example he was a regular soldier (no suggestion that he was from your posting - you seem to imply he enlisted in Durham - at the start of the war?) he would probably have been long serving by the time war started, as there is a numerical progression of sorts in RFA numbers thus Gunner Arthur Charles Lee (30387) enlisted 11/2/1903 in London as a 3+9 (3 years fulltime and 9 years as a reservist, so he was mobilised in 1914 as a reservist Gunner James Rich (30392) enlisted 09/02/1903 in Chichester- the same .. mobilised as a reservist in 1914 so your man, could have been a slightly earlier enlistment ...........a comparable number .. a Gunner Battle (26287) enlisted August 1902 .. was mobilised as a reservist at Woolwich in 1914 .. served in a Reserve Brigade for training probably due to age .. but, this will not give a guide to his unit, as far as I can see .. so can we rule this out? but from Aug 1914 , there were plenty of 'old' low numbers being reissued again .. (I have no idea how that worked, I have seen some hints of some pattern to it ..), so a sub-80000 number does not indicate a regular soldier .. although a regular gunner in 1914 will, almost certainly have a sub 80000 number [the highest number I have identified for a regular in France in 1914 is perhaps 76488?] but going to France in Aug 1915 (is this from a medal index card?) is likely to indicate his unit if he was a wartime recruit .. perhaps in 106 -107 -108 or 109 Brigades .. which went to France in August with 24th Division I think .. - its easy to check which month - or even day brigades first landed in France ... Do you have a date of disembarkation in France - that would be a start? so, for your purposes, can we rule out the possibility of him being a regular soldier - or reservist .. by age perhaps? if, so I doubt the number will be helpful If yuo have a date for going to France that may be a start as if a wartime recruit he probably went with his 1st unit when posted to France in 1915, rather than as a reinforcement who was allocated when he arrived in France .. sorry if that is all negative (and irrelevantly boring..) david Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve chilton Posted 8 December , 2007 Share Posted 8 December , 2007 Just to throw in my tuppence worth.... My grandfather, Henry Herbert Shirley, 8th (howitzer) Brigade RFA, number 65256, I dont have an elistment date for him but he was born in 1893. The qualifying date on his MIC reads 19(very clearly)/6(95% sure)/14(very clearly) could 19/6/14 be correct or is it too early? Steve Chilton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 8 December , 2007 Share Posted 8 December , 2007 The 8th (Howitzer) Brigade, RFA embarked on 19 August 1914 and disembarked in France on 20 August 1914. Dick Flory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve chilton Posted 8 December , 2007 Share Posted 8 December , 2007 CHeers Dick, Looks for all the world like 19/6/14 but obviously must be 19/8/14. Steve Chilton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theresa musgrove Posted 8 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 8 December , 2007 thank so much for your reply- those brigades in the 24th division have been mentioned before so I think I must check them out. Is there a way of checking in greater detail? My grandfather was in France from August 31st 1915 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 8 December , 2007 Share Posted 8 December , 2007 the last units of 24th Div were landing on 1 sept .. the 109th Bde laanded at le Havre 31 August .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 8 December , 2007 Share Posted 8 December , 2007 the last units of 24th Div were landing on 1 sept .. the 109th Bde landed at le Havre 31 August .. I have now seen your other posts elsewhere with the rest of the information - and training in Aldershot area would have been fine for 109th Bde, and leaving for France then .. and his age shows him to be 20 so not an old regular with an early number .. the other numbers of the medal roll must relate to a range of different units, some locally enrolled (the L/ numbers..), some not, clearly a sequence based on some sort of list .. but almost certainly not in the same unit .. an officers diary of 108th Bde, 24th Division for 30th August says 'we motored into Aldershot town to get a few last things .. the 24th divsion has been going for some days and we are almost the last to start .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theresa musgrove Posted 9 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 9 December , 2007 Thank you again for taking the trouble to reply: it's all been a huge help and the information about Aldershot is very interesting. Where did you find the details of Brigade embarkation dates? Someone else thought that perhaps the 107th despatched on 31st August: is it possible to distinguish between the two? Grateful for any advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battiscombe Posted 9 December , 2007 Share Posted 9 December , 2007 the 109th war diary indicates they entered France that day, but 107th could also have done so as the whole division was on the move.. 107th stayed with Division for rest of war 109th was broken up and men posted to other units 3 Oct 1916 .. I would try and confirm that 107th may also have landed on the 31st - or did you get a firm indication from someone that that was the case? if so that has at least narrowed it down .. 109th war diary begins .. 1 September 1915 CONTES Detrained at CONTES at 11.30am having arrived at HAVRE from England on 31/8/1915. 9 September 1915 FLECHIN – bivouacked 10 September 1915 HURIONVILLE – Court martial assembled for Bombadier Cole B. A Column who was reduced to the ranks. 12 September 1915 VAUDRICOURT NOUEX-LES-MINES - A Battery took over gun pits that had been prepared at PHILOSOPHE near VERMELLES. Several days are spent improving gun pits. COL H.T BUTCHER. c/o108 BDE RFA killed by H.E. shell assisting civilians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theresa musgrove Posted 10 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 10 December , 2007 Really interesting: yet again thanks very much, your help is so much appreciated. The ideal scenario would be that I am able to elimnate the 107th arriving on that date, but we will have to see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Warnes Posted 23 March , 2008 Share Posted 23 March , 2008 David In relation to a RHA/RFA number 96681 what would that indicate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtjmartin Posted 24 September , 2013 Share Posted 24 September , 2013 I to am interested in RFA numbering. My grandfather served in the RFA and was kia 29/8/18; he is buried just outside Areas close to Monchy (Whitehouse cem). His number was L/29100 and served in 29 bty (32nd Bde). I have a photo of him with other soldiers who I assume are members of the same gun team with a hand written sign stating 'somewhere in France 1917'. I am trying to identify when he joined and what action he might have been involved in when killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 24 September , 2013 Share Posted 24 September , 2013 jtjmartin, Welcome to the Forum, Your grandfather joined 176th (Leicester) Howitzer Brigade sometime between June 10th and 14th, 1915. This was part of 34th Division. It was a locally raised brigade of 4 howitzer batteries, A to D, so he most likely enlisted in Leicester or nearby. He obviously moved to 29th Battery prior to his death. The question now is when and which battery is in your 1917 photograph. Looking at 176th Howitzer Brigade - it lost its Howitzer designation during 1916 as batteries were dispersed to other brigades - so not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtjmartin Posted 25 September , 2013 Share Posted 25 September , 2013 Thank you David, It had not occurred to me that my grandfather had volunteered so early as he was married with three children (although I appreciate many thousands in similar circumstances did). I will try and post the photo but I am not very expert at this. The information on the photo is as you would expect very limited. It shows nine very serious (and hard looking) soldiers; three wearing spurs, one with a bugle. Horses and bell tents in the background. My grandfather is on the extreme left of the group. It would be interesting if anyone else has a similar copy or can recognise any of the group. Will try and post and thank you again for the information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtjmartin Posted 25 September , 2013 Share Posted 25 September , 2013 David Have posted photo (RFA jtjmartin). I would be very interested in your comments. If anyone can provide information or have a copy of this photo (assuming all in group received and sent copy home)I would be most interested in stories relating to other members of the group and what happened to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtjmartin Posted 25 September , 2013 Share Posted 25 September , 2013 Sorry misinformation. My grandfather is on the extreme RIGHT of the formation. He is buried outside Arras (not 'Areas'). He lived in Leicester, his only pre-service involvement with horses was as a coalman, but I guess that was enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Llewellyn Posted 25 September , 2013 Share Posted 25 September , 2013 The Leicester City, Absent Voters List, confirms that John was a resident of 47, Erskine Street, Leicester, as per the information on CWGC, and that he was on Naval/Military service. It also shows a Samuel Webster at the same address. Regards. Llew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Llewellyn Posted 25 September , 2013 Share Posted 25 September , 2013 Hello David, I don't know if this would be of any use to you, but I've just finished transcribing the 4 Leicestershire Voting Divisions for the County Absent Voters Lists into individual regiments & corps. If you would like the 1214 RFA men and 93 RHA men listed then please let me know and I'll gladly send them over. Regards. Llew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 25 September , 2013 Share Posted 25 September , 2013 jtjmartin, Cannot see your photo yet - where is it posted? Llew, What a wonderful thing you have done. I will be in touch soon about artillery extracts from the AVL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtjmartin Posted 25 September , 2013 Share Posted 25 September , 2013 Posted photo in gallery around 3pm today. Hope haven't messed up, in which case it could be anywhere! John Martin lived at 47 Erskine St Leicester along with his wife's (step) father Sam Webster, her mother Charlotte and three children Ada, Alice and my father John who died in July aged 98. Ada lived in the house until it was demolished in the 1970's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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