ss Nigeria official number 114747

[daggers]

I am looking at a possible non-commemoration of a 16-year-old seaman, Charles BOYLE whose death cert states he died 'lost in fire to ship', with details as in the heading.

Does anyone know more about this ship and the incident please?

Daggers

[birchp]

I am looking at a possible non-commemoration of a 16-year-old seaman, Charles BOYLE whose death cert states he died 'lost in fire to ship', with details as in the heading.

Does anyone know more about this ship and the incident please?

Daggers

Built 1901!

http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/lines/Elder_Dempster.html

Sold 1917 to the Shipping Controller, renamed Polonia

May be nothing, but this may be connected to:-

24 March 1917 , Telegram concerning request to Russian government to give Tsar safe conduct to Port Romanoff for departure to England

Paul

[daggers]

Paul

Thanks for that - every little helps. However, the Tsar business is too late for the fire, which was on 9th March. Yesterday I found a website with some pics of the ship after it was raised - ice etc on the deck- but could not find it again later. There was also a link to a post on this forum. I thought I would be able to return to both later but have not found them again. Very frustrating!

Daggers

[Kath]

Crew lists here, but unfortunately not 1917.

http://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcrews.p...icial_No=114747

Some pics here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnparker/

Kath.

[birchp]

Crew lists here, but unfortunately not 1917.

http://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcrews.p...icial_No=114747

Some pics here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnparker/

Kath.

in one of the photos HMS Intrepid

HMS Intrepid and HMS Iphigenia were both used as depot ships from 1916-1917, spending part of 1917 in the White Sea supporting the British intervention in Russia

another picture

http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnparker/445148714/

[daggers]

Kath and Birchp

Great stuff. I found those pics yesterday morning, did not make a note of the address and have spent hours looking for them again. My possible non-commem. was a crew member and the pics bring home his dreadful fate, whether by fire or frost.

Thank you to both for your help.

Daggers

[Tom Wales]

It looks like they have a copy of the crew list for 1917 at Kew + some other records

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalog...mp;SearchInit=1

[Kath]

Tom,

I looked on NA yesterday, but could only see lists of passengers.

The link you gave does not work.

Kath.

[daggers]

Thanks to all who who helped on this. Sadly the young seaman does not after all qualify for CWGC recognition - see the other thread under possible non-commems.

Daggers

[WendyLF]

I am looking at a possible non-commemoration of a 16-year-old seaman, Charles BOYLE whose death cert states he died 'lost in fire to ship', with details as in the heading.

Does anyone know more about this ship and the incident please?

Daggers

In researching family history for one Carl Frederick Boyle - my grandfathers elder brother, which on a memorial listing that I found, states rank as AB and under regiment - HMT Nigeria, I came accross this thread post, although old, for me it was as if I struck gold. I have a cut out of a newspaper article (not in the best condition) that was amongst my grandfathers papers - that appears to refer to the Charles Boyle above - an extract reads "The transport on which he was caught fire in Russian waters, and he and another were burnt (burned?) to death". Could they be the same person? - Were there any other details on the death certificate. Any possible info would be greatly appreciated.

[daggers]

Wendy

Welcome to this Forum.

I was the original poster on this topic and was researching names on the WW1 memorial plaque in my parish church - St Anne's, Aigburth in Liverpool.

These are the notes I have on him - everything else is in the thread you have read. I asked the War Graves Commission if this young man was eligible for recognition as a war-related death, but he did not meet with their criterion as his death was not directly war-related. This was disappointing.

"BOYLE, Charles Seaman

Died 9 March 1917 serving in H.M. Transport Nigeria. Not found in CWGC data. Vessel was a support ship or store carrier, ex Elder Dempster which caught fire at the north Russian port of Romanoff (now Murmansk). Death certificate shows that Boyle was aged 16 and was lost in the fire. Residence 41 Gledville Street, Garston. Initials shown in Book as CFP, named on plaque as Charles."

The church has both a wall plaque inside the church and an inscribed book. There are many differences between the two lists, hence the initial F appearing in the book and not on the plaque..

Have you Liverpool links? The address shown - Gledville Street, Garston does not match any road I can find, though there is a Gladeville Road in Mossley Hill, which was in the old Garston township before its icorporation into the city.

I would appreciate any new details and can send photos of the names if you wish.

Daggers

[WendyLF]

Daggers,

Thank-you for the quick reply. My grandfather was born in Liverpool hence my researching the family. I cannot confirm the street address but the family i.e brothers and sisters, were all born in Garston and still show their mother, a sister and a brother as residing there as per the 1911 census extracts that I have found.

I will try and find out via one of the other forum that I joined if they can perhaps trace a street address for the family - I am limited to internet searches as I am in South Africa and subscription services work out to be rather costly.

I found two other memorial references for Carl as well as the one for Charles that you referred to above on www.merseysiderollofhonour.co.uk as follows:

SS Matthew & James C. of E. Church, Mossley Hill and Garston Civic Memorial.

Not sure if you would like the scan of the newspaper article, but have attached it. If I can confirm the address, I would greatly appreciate the photo's of the names.

If there is any other specific information which you think I may have, and would like to know, please let me know and I will gladly assist.

PS - Carl had an Uncle who died in WW1.

Wendy

[daggers]

Wendy

I will get photos for you during this week. When you have made 5 posts on this forum you will be able to use the personal message system and you can send me your email address. The messages do not have to mean anything!

If you put HMT Nigeria or similar words into Google you should find some sad photos of the ship being raised after its sinking.

I'll be in touch again.

Daggers

[WendyLF]

The address for Carl in 1911 as per the census was - 5 Byron St Garston Liverpool, have relayed the address you gave me earlier - will see if something ties up.

Thanks again for the info.

Wendy

Sorry forgaot to add - I googled SS Nigeria and got mopre results than on HMT Nigeria - does look rather sad.

[daggers]

Byron Street was very close to St Michael's - Garston Parish Church. I hope to get access tomorrow. The area has been much redevloped but there is still a strong local community there, a couple of miles from where I live.

There is a big memorial brass in the church with many names and I think that must be the main memorial for Garston, as there are no names on the local cenotaph. I am awaiting news of how to get into Mossley Hill Church - perhaps when they open up for a midweek service.

I found reading your cutting difficult, but made out the unusual name Ounsworth, linked with a school. The history of St Anne's mentions a Mrs Ounsworth who deputised as organist during WW1, and was the wife of the headmaster of St Anne's School.

What was Carl's uncle's name and any known service details? I'll look for him on the same memorials.

D

[WendyLF]

I really hope I am not putting you out in anyway!

With regards the article which I will resend to you in a Word doc later (easier to enlarge), I traced a reference to Robert Wright, in some Garston Reminiscences extract:

HEADMASTER WRIGHT

"I walked on until I reached the National Schools. The headmaster then was Robert Wright. He was a clever man, even though he did not spare the rod and spoil the child, and I received a splendid grounding for my education there. Every year we held the school concert in the old Reading Room in Wellington Street. This was a great event and there were packed houses every night.

Crossing the road I reached St Michael's Church. The vicar at that time was Dr Oliver. In the cemetery adjoining this, there still stood the old church, a square structure with stained glass windows. This was demolished some years later."

Most of the children i.e Carl's brothers and sisters were baptised/christened at St Michael's.

With regards his uncle, below is what I found on CWGC:

Casualty Details

Name:

BOYLE, JOSEPH WILSON







J W







United Kingdom







Third Engineer







Mercantile Marine







S.S. "Cambank" (Cardiff)







30







20/02/1915







Son of Margaret Boyle (nee Wilson), of 6, Canterbury St., Garston, and the late Joseph Wilson Boyle. Born at Runcorn.







Commonwealth War Dead

Initials:

Nationality:

Rank:

Regiment/Service:

Unit Text:

Age:

Date of Death:

Additional information:

Casualty Type:

[WendyLF]

The sad part of this story, if I (and daggers info ) have gotten it right is that he was actually only 15 when he died his 16th would have been on September 14......AND Only one part of this familys' WW history.

[daggers]

Adding a little update to this thread:

Thanks to Kathy of this forum the whole of the cutting reporting Charles Boyle's death and including a photo has been traced and copied to Wendy together with snaps of the Roll of Honour inscriptions in the two parish churches. However, no-one has yet been able to define the "Garston Civic Memorial" to which some reference is made above and in the 'Merseyside Roll of Honour' website.

It is not the parish church (St Michael's) which has a fine set of panels, and not the Garston cenotaph which has no names.

Someone now in the USA may know something...

Daggers

[SloopJB]

If you are still looking for the crew lists for 114747 then the early years up to 1913 are in liverpool.

1914 on are in MUN Canada, except for 1917 which is held at Kew under BT99/3330.

Also remember is a voyage starts in one year say 1917 and ends in 1918 it is filled under 1918 usually.

Hope this helps. Sloop.

[daggers]

Thanks for that information, Sloop. It is only the 15-year-old Charles Boyle who interests me, but your details could be useful to anyone else who is concerned with HMT Nigeria.

D