chaplains desertion

[andrew wilbraham]

hi,

for aguements sake if a chaplain abandoned his post and did not do his duty as chaplain was he court marshalled or even tried for cowardness? the war must have come quite close to the chaplains behind the lines at times. it is also documented quite widely that achaplain would see to dieing men in the field occasionally so were there any cases of chaplains refusing to do their duty, if so what were te consequences??

regards

andrew

[Paul Reed]

I don't think they could be shot as they were considered non-combattants.

Would be interested to know to what degree they were subject to Military Law, however.

[michaeldr]

Andrew/Paul,

In general terms the Chaplains were subject to Army discipline. See the following which is the final paragraph of a letter [from Johnstone & Hargerty - The Cross on the Sword] regarding the "Reorganization of the Chaplains' Department"

"All instructions affecting the discipline, organisation, establishment, etc., of the Department will be issued from this office and correspondence arising therefrom should be addressed to the Adjutant-General, General Headquarters.

signed

C. F. N. Macready, Lieut.-General

Adjutant-General, British Army in the Field

General Headquarters 24th August 1915"

However Paul's question " to what degree" is crucial and at the moment I can only add the following also from J & H's book which examines the RC position

"Nearly a thousand Catholic priests served as chaplains during the Great War and only a handful failed the stern test of regimental society in action. Two chaplains, newly arrived in France, by the report of a fellow priest, never got further than the Principle Chaplain's office at GHQ. Another lasted a month and a third three months, before their engagements were 'terminated' without fuss or publicity, and they returned to their dioceses to face the wrath of the bishop. Towards the end of the war, the incidence of excessive drinking rose and a few more were sent home for this reason."

This suggests of degree of 'self-discipline,' at least on behalf of the RC chaplains

Regards

Michael D.R.

[andrew wilbraham]

hi ,

it would seem that the army chaplain was some what of a grey area for the 'establishment' as they obviously found it hard to distinguish a line between the cleric and the officer.

regards

andrew

p.s. how are you paul hope everythings ok---woofy

[john w.]

Manual of Military Law 1914 states that

As long as the chaplain confines himself to the spiritual needs of the soldiers then he cannot be taken prisoner...

Read into that what you may, there are no other relevant references.

John

[andrew wilbraham]

would the chaplains retreat from the war, should they decide it wasn't for them after thay had agreed to go, be something that was never spoken of with regards to the white feather treatment back in blighty?? would they be protected by the church with some kind of truth bending story?

regards

andrew

[john w.]

As Michael said theywould have been brought home with little fuss. No point in drawing attention to it as the steretype of the chaplain might be reduced in the eyes of the soldiers and the public at large..

John

[Guest sbecker]

I did notice in many Anzac units the high turnover of chaplians.

Weather this was because if not up to stardard, aussies will soon let you know it or that the chaplains had trouble ajusting to the life of a fighting soldier.

I did notice that there were on the hole, three chaplains at Brigade HQ (Light Horse) of which they could be allocated to each LH regt in the Brigade but they (chaplains) also spent his time with the Feild Amblance as well as the LH Regt.

All in all he was kept very busy which would be shown by the many decorations won by chaplains during the war.

I did notice that they would do a service for all regions not just the one he was a member of.

S.B

[Jock Bruce]

Manual of Military Law 1914 states that

As long as the chaplain confines himself to the spiritual needs of the soldiers then he cannot be taken prisoner...

Read into that what you may, there are no other relevant references.

John

John,

I think that's really a reference to chaplains' status under the Laws and Usages of War - what is often called the Geneva Convention.

Although not specifically mentioned in the Army Act, I think chaplains probably could be 'done'.

Sect 175 of the Act specifies who is subject to military law. This includes -

(7) Every person not otherwise subject to military law who under the general or special order of the Army Council ... accompanies in an official capacity equivalent to that of officer any of His Majesty's troops on active service in any place ......

I can see nothing saying this does NOT apply to padres.

Jock