dobbin Posted 26 November , 2007 Share Posted 26 November , 2007 I have read Cheerful Sacrifice more than once and I cant seem to fit my uncle's death into any of the actions that took place at the time. He died on the 15th April 1917. I cant find any reference to the Dubs in the battles although I am told thats where they were at the time. Joseph Ernest Evans ended up in th Dubs , he started out in the London Regiment. I have read that the Dubs were part of the 63rd division yet I cant see on maps of the battles a reference to that Division. I have read about the Chemical Works and Gavrelle battles but they were either before or after the date. I havent found any more detailed works on this period perhaps someone can recomnend more in depth reading. Or even better stil someone might have a clu or two. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenwoodman Posted 26 November , 2007 Share Posted 26 November , 2007 A clue perhaps. 63rd Div was part of XIII corps. James' "A Record of the Battles and Engagements of the British Armies in France and Flanders 1914-1918" has a footnote explaining that XIII Corps came into the line on 12/04/17. It doesn't say where, but they were involved in the Second Battle of the Scarpe 23-24/04/17. The Offy History does mention where though - The 63rd Div moved up to Le Comte (the e has an acute accent on it) where they were held in readiness to take over part of the XVII Corps front should it be required. The aim of XVII Corps was to maintain touch between the right of the Canadian Corps and the left of the Third Army (as it was intended that Third Army would move forward astride the Scarpe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobbin Posted 27 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 27 November , 2007 A clue perhaps. 63rd Div was part of XIII corps. James' "A Record of the Battles and Engagements of the British Armies in France and Flanders 1914-1918" has a footnote explaining that XIII Corps came into the line on 12/04/17. It doesn't say where, but they were involved in the Second Battle of the Scarpe 23-24/04/17. The Offy History does mention where though - The 63rd Div moved up to Le Comte (the e has an acute accent on it) where they were held in readiness to take over part of the XVII Corps front should it be required. The aim of XVII Corps was to maintain touch between the right of the Canadian Corps and the left of the Third Army (as it was intended that Third Army would move forward astride the Scarpe. Thank you very much for your help. Do you please have the initial of the author James as my local library catalogue does not recognise either name or title there being a large number of James? When you refer to Offy history can you help me as I am not sure what this is as I am still " feeling my way" through the technicalities. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenwoodman Posted 27 November , 2007 Share Posted 27 November , 2007 Sure. Its Captain E. A. James, and the title is one of those which is very helpful in placing units in the various campaigns and battles, although its based on Corps. Some delving has to be done to follow divisions. It has nothing else on 63 Div as regards the period 8-24/04/17. My copy is a paperback which was reprinted by Naval & Military Press in 1998. The Offy is The Official History of the Great War in some 30+ volumes. The volume I used for Arras is "Military Operations France and Belgium 1917 Volume 1". This particular volume was compiled by Capt Cyril Falls. The Offy is great for the wider context, and does go into some detail, but inevitably it is limited in respect of individual units. Again 63 Div's next mention after the above is on 23rd April. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobbin Posted 27 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 27 November , 2007 Sure. Its Captain E. A. James, and the title is one of those which is very helpful in placing units in the various campaigns and battles, although its based on Corps. Some delving has to be done to follow divisions. It has nothing else on 63 Div as regards the period 8-24/04/17. My copy is a paperback which was reprinted by Naval & Military Press in 1998. The Offy is The Official History of the Great War in some 30+ volumes. The volume I used for Arras is "Military Operations France and Belgium 1917 Volume 1". This particular volume was compiled by Capt Cyril Falls. The Offy is great for the wider context, and does go into some detail, but inevitably it is limited in respect of individual units. Again 63 Div's next mention after the above is on 23rd April. Thanks a lot thats a quick reply. I can see that for that period and battle, facts are a bit thinner so I am grateful for any reading matter. That Oppy you refer to is it usually available at public liraries? Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connaughtranger Posted 4 December , 2007 Share Posted 4 December , 2007 The RND took over the sector of the 34th Division, which lay due west of Gavrelle, on the night 14/15th April. Their first task was to bring outposts of the left Brigade sector into line. The first attempt was made on the morning of the 15th by the 10th Dublin Fus and the 4th Bedfords. The opposition had been underestimated and heavy losses occurred. What they tried to do was advance the front line in broad daylight under the noses of an alert enemy. It didn't work! It would seem Joseph Evans died in that attempt Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobbin Posted 4 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 4 December , 2007 The RND took over the sector of the 34th Division, which lay due west of Gavrelle, on the night 14/15th April. Their first task was to bring outposts of the left Brigade sector into line. The first attempt was made on the morning of the 15th by the 10th Dublin Fus and the 4th Bedfords. The opposition had been underestimated and heavy losses occurred. What they tried to do was advance the front line in broad daylight under the noses of an alert enemy. It didn't work! It would seem Joseph Evans died in that attempt Martin Thanks Martin Where did you read up on that? I have just ordered The Official History of The Great War Arras. Cant quiet work out exactly whats what as the library catalogue is not very clear on which is which as they are just grouped under a Stack No 940.04. The librarian wasnt too sure either which is not suprising when you consider the kinds of questions they get asked. Do you think that might help? Everything I have read so far does not say much about Gavrelle but I was coming to the conclusion that it was a likely place for Joseph's demise as others had hinted it to me at my WFA meetings. Your help is very much appreciated. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connaughtranger Posted 4 December , 2007 Share Posted 4 December , 2007 It came from the The Royal Naval Division by Douglas Jerrold page 227 Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobbin Posted 11 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 11 December , 2007 It came from the The Royal Naval Division by Douglas Jerrold page 227 Martin Thanks Douglas I have now read it but I still cant tie in the Dublin Fusiliers although one thing is good I am having to go back to learning all those Roman numerals I thought I would never use again Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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