16th Middlesex + depots

[Susan Haselden]

My Dad is 85 and desperate to know what his father `did in the war'. The only information we had was that he was gassed in France. From the medal roll index I found that he served with the 16th Middlesex. Fortunately we have two papers for my granddad in the `burnt records' from which I was able to ascertain when he was in France and I have since read the War Diaries for these dates. However, there is more that we would like to know:

William's Attestation gives three numbers, 069599, G/51067 and TR/10/554Y, the latter crossed out (this could be TR/10/564Y) and that he joined up on 12.10.1915 at the Remount Depot in Swaythling, Southampton. His occupation is stated as `groom'.

Question: Would it be feasible to assume that he stayed at the Southampton Depot, which was not far from where he lived, or would he have been posted to another Remount Depot?

William's burnt record shows `home 12.10.15 to 12.6.16' and `entered France 13.6.16 to 2.9.16' and `home 2.9.16' (this could be 3.9.16 as the record is indistinct). Under this it is very indistinct but I think I can make out the words with some guessing as `Transfer to 32nd Training Reserve Battn 7.9.16.' (could be 22nd??) then could be Auth:- Dr something, Asst something and then ?.9.16'

Under that, still very murky, is perhaps Middx D. and then another word which I would like to make out as Hanwell as I think I can see the `well' bit but the first bit of the word looks more like Pad. and the date 1.3.17. However this is very indistinct.

Quesions: I presume he was sent home from France sick and then went into the Training Reserve Battalion before his final discharge. Why would he go into a Training Reserve Battn when he had already fought and wasn't a raw recruit? What would he have done there? Where would this battalion have been stationed - does the number TR/10/554Y give any clue?

William's medal card (two sides I think) shows on one that he was a private in ASC 069599 and Middx R G/51067 and that he was awarded the Victory and British Medals. On the other side of the card (or it could be a separate card) it states Middx R Depot, G/51067 date of enlistment 12.10.15, date of discharge 19.5.17. Sick para Xvii KR.

In the Roll of Individuals entitled to the War Badge he is listed as G/51067 Private William Heather, the unit discharged from is `Depot' dates of enlistment and discharge same as medal card and cause of discharge Sickness 392 xvi K.R and that he served overseas.This is issued at Hounslow.

On the Roll of Individuals entitled to the Victory/British War Medals he is listed as G/51067 16th Middx and 069599 RASC. This is issued at Hanwell.

I wonder if there is anyone who would know where I could find out where he served prior to going to France, if he was hospitalised, and where he would have served after France.

Incidentally, six years ago I accompanied my Dad on a WW1 Battle Tour and took his photo on the rim of the Hawthorn crater - which is where the 16th Middlesex fought on the first day of the Somme. How uncanny is that given that at the time we had no idea at all where his father had fought

[Peterhastie]

My Dad is 85 and desperate to know what his father `did in the war'. The only information we had was that he was gassed in France. From the medal roll index I found that he served with the 16th Middlesex. Fortunately we have two papers for my granddad in the `burnt records' from which I was able to ascertain when he was in France and I have since read the War Diaries for these dates. However, there is more that we would like to know:

William's Attestation gives three numbers, 069599, G/51067 and TR/10/554Y, the latter crossed out (this could be TR/10/564Y) and that he joined up on 12.10.1915 at the Remount Depot in Swaythling, Southampton. His occupation is stated as `groom'.

Question: Would it be feasible to assume that he stayed at the Southampton Depot, which was not far from where he lived, or would he have been posted to another Remount Depot?

William's burnt record shows `home 12.10.15 to 12.6.16' and `entered France 13.6.16 to 2.9.16' and `home 2.9.16' (this could be 3.9.16 as the record is indistinct). Under this it is very indistinct but I think I can make out the words with some guessing as `Transfer to 32nd Training Reserve Battn 7.9.16.' (could be 22nd??) then could be Auth:- Dr something, Asst something and then ?.9.16'

Under that, still very murky, is perhaps Middx D. and then another word which I would like to make out as Hanwell as I think I can see the `well' bit but the first bit of the word looks more like Pad. and the date 1.3.17. However this is very indistinct.

Quesions: I presume he was sent home from France sick and then went into the Training Reserve Battalion before his final discharge. Why would he go into a Training Reserve Battn when he had already fought and wasn't a raw recruit? What would he have done there? Where would this battalion have been stationed - does the number TR/10/554Y give any clue?

William's medal card (two sides I think) shows on one that he was a private in ASC 069599 and Middx R G/51067 and that he was awarded the Victory and British Medals. On the other side of the card (or it could be a separate card) it states Middx R Depot, G/51067 date of enlistment 12.10.15, date of discharge 19.5.17. Sick para Xvii KR.

In the Roll of Individuals entitled to the War Badge he is listed as G/51067 Private William Heather, the unit discharged from is `Depot' dates of enlistment and discharge same as medal card and cause of discharge Sickness 392 xvi K.R and that he served overseas.This is issued at Hounslow.

On the Roll of Individuals entitled to the Victory/British War Medals he is listed as G/51067 16th Middx and 069599 RASC. This is issued at Hanwell.

I wonder if there is anyone who would know where I could find out where he served prior to going to France, if he was hospitalised, and where he would have served after France.

Incidentally, six years ago I accompanied my Dad on a WW1 Battle Tour and took his photo on the rim of the Hawthorn crater - which is where the 16th Middlesex fought on the first day of the Somme. How uncanny is that given that at the time we had no idea at all where his father had fought

Hello Susan

I cant help you very much other than to tell you that their does appear to have been a depot at Hanwell, possibly Hanwell Hall. I have a photo which I posted on this forum, take a look maybe your gfather is on it. The cardboard tube which the photo was delivered to my gmother in has written on it "if undelivered please return to Officer I/C Records Hanwell"

Its not much but I hope it helps

Regs Peter

[Susan Haselden]

Hello Susan

I cant help you very much other than to tell you that their does appear to have been a depot at Hanwell, possibly Hanwell Hall. I have a photo which I posted on this forum, take a look maybe your gfather is on it. The cardboard tube which the photo was delivered to my gmother in has written on it "if undelivered please return to Officer I/C Records Hanwell"

Its not much but I hope it helps

Regs Peter

[Susan Haselden]

Thanks for your help Peter. I have looked at the photo but unfortunately couldn't possibly say whether my grandad is here. S.