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Remembered Today:

Able seaman Fred Pickles died on Emlyndene


n.lamb
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Hi,

Able seaman Fred Pickles Z/3508

Researching my local memorial I came across this man who died on the Emlyndene. The ship was transporting coal from Cardiff when it disappeared without trace on 11th December 1917.

Does anyone have any more information about the dissapperance of this ship or a photo maybe?

Thanks for any help received

Norman

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Oliver Lörscher, and Mick Forsyth and I recently worked through KTB (war diary) of the German submarine UC 50 and are of the belief that the sinking claimed by the U-boat on December 11, 1917 east of Start Point was in fact Emlyndene.

Best wishes,

Michael

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That's very interesting.

What does KTB mean please?

NB I seem to have two threads running on this person but don't know how to delete one, could you assist?

Norman

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KTB = Kriegstagebuch = the German word for war diary

Oh, was destined for Granville.

Should be a delete thread bottom somewhere -- not really sure, I answer much more than start threads.

Best wishes,

Michael

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These men also died on the EMLYNDENE:

COCKLE, H. Able Seaman MM SS Emlyndene (Cardiff) drowned 11.12.17

CRUMLIN, William Boatswain (Bosun) MM SS Emlyndene (Cardiff) drowned 11.12.17

FLOWERS, W. Able Seaman MM SS Emlyndene (Cardiff) drowned 11.12.17

LAMBE, Thomas Master MM Emlyndene (Cardiff) 11.12.17

McDEVATT, J. Steward MM SS Emlyndene (Cardiff) drowned 11.12.17

PAYNE, Henry Able Seaman MM SS Emlyndene (Cardiff) drowned 11. 12.17

REILLY, Owen Mate MM SS Emlyndene (Cardiff) drowned 11.12.17

RIDDLE, Thomas Francis 2nd Engineer MM SS Emlyndene (Cardiff) drowned 11.12.17

ROSS, G. Fireman MM SS Emlyndene (Cardiff) drowned 11.12.17

SILVA, A. Fireman MM SS Emlyndene (Cardiff) drowned 11.12.17

TERREYRA, T. Fireman MM SS Emlyndene (Cardiff) drowned 11.12.17

WATKINS, John Chief Engineer MM SS Emlyndene (Cardiff) drowned 11.12.17

GAUL, James Leading Seaman RNR 2424.B (D) SS Emlyndene killed 11.11.17

PICKLES, Fred AB RNVR Palace£3508 SS Emlyndene killed 11.12.17

Cheers Ron

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His service register is on microfilm at Kew in ADM 337 and more records at the Fleet Air Arm Museum.

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Michael - thanks for reply - where is Granville?

Ron - great list thanks

per ardua per ma... - do I have to visit Kew to look at AMD337 and what information will it contain?

- why would the fleet air arm museum have records and how can I contact them (where is the fleet air arm museum?)

Thanks everyone for your interest.

Norman

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Norman,

Granville is in France. Draw a line from Plymouth to Jersey... then extend it to France, and that's about where Granville is. And steamers tended to hug the coast at that point in the war, so neither Oliver or I consider the location to be a disqualifier.

Best wishes,

Michael

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hi Norman, a little more info,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

built by Murdoch & Murray Port Glasgow,

Yard No 198

built as ss llandaff

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last Name: EMLYNDENE (1913)

Previous Names: KILROOT (1913)

Launched: Thursday, 13 October 1904

Built: 1904

Ship Type: Steamship

Tonnage: 495 grt

Length: 170.6 feet

Breadth: 23.6 feet

Owner History:

Michael Murphy, Cardiff

1913 Wilson & Reid, Belfast

1913 Emlyn Line (Jones & Williams), Cardiff

Status: Went Missing After - 11/12/1917

Remarks: Mising after sailing from Cardiff for Granville with coal

Previous update by Stuart Cameron

Last updated: by George Robinson from the original records by Stuart Cameron

regards tony

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Norman, These records are not online, but it might be possible to order a copy online from their shop online (as this is more than their usual download fee, you're better off requsting a lookup). His correct service number is PZ 3508 he was a civilian entrant at Crystal Palace rating; this is important because the Kew records are in service number order. These registers give name, date and place of birth, and list of ships/ shore establishments served on.

The National Archives refused to take a huge number of records and the FAAMuseum took them instead. Contact details and web site link to what they hold below.

Centre for Naval Aviation Records & Research

Fleet Air Arm Museum

Box D6, RNAS Yeovilton

Near Ilchester,

Somerset

BA22 8HT

Tel: +44 (0) 1935 840565, selecting 2 for research.

Fax: +44 (0) 1935 842630

E-mail: research@fleetairarm.com

http://www.fleetairarm.com/pages/research/archivep1.htm

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Thanks "per adua per ma..."

I am also in contact with a relative of one of the men who died on the ship so things are looking up.

Thanks again

Stormin

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  • 1 year later...

Hi Norman,

My name is John Cockle and my paternal grand father was lost on the Emlyndene.

After reading about the voyage of the Emlyndene and the fact that she may have been torpedoed by the submarine UC50, I found a site called divernet.com that featured a article about a welsh steamship the 'Carmarthen' that was also torpedoed by the UC50, who at that time was laying mines in the south west. The Carmarthen was not sunk but badly damaged, they tried to beach her but she surcumbed and sank off Black head.

From this I have found another site southwestmafia.com that claims to have found the wreck of UC50 just off the french coast to the south of calais off Boulonge-sur-mer. They give the date sunk as the 4th Febuary 1918, which is not quite two months after the loss of the Emlyndene.

I also have a copy of the Lloyds shipping register which lists the loss of the ship, and finally I have a photograph of her, the name can be made out, she has twin masts with booms that I presume are used for loading and unloading cargo. The bridge is slightly aft of centre with the smoke stack behind that. The funnel is very high and thin in diameter. Motive power was through a triple expansion steam engine running at 180 Lbs force, and she developed 99Hp at the screw.

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John,

UC 50 was most definitely note sunk by HMS Zubian on February 4, 1918 — that attack was against a homeward bound UC 79.

I am quite familiar with the U-boat wreck off the French coast of which you speak — I helped write the book on it. Literally. It's U 95 with some slight chance of it being U 93.

No, UC 50 is missing after sailing from Flanders on Jan. 7, 1918.

Best wishes,

Michael

uboat.net

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