Terry Denham Posted 23 November , 2007 Share Posted 23 November , 2007 As has been discussed elsewhere on the Forum, GWF is launching the IN FROM THE COLD PROJECT with immediate effect. The purpose of IFCP is to compare the GRO Overseas Death Index with the CWGC Debt of Honour to find any names missing from the latter. The GRO list is the most complete list available of UK WW1 casualties who died overseas (Army, RN and RAF). As with any such list, there are bound to be a few names missing but it is the best there is! Once found the names will be put forward to CWGC/MoD through GWF for acceptance for CWGC commemoration and war grave status. This exercise will find missing names of UK men/women who died in service overseas 1914-1921 and who therefore automatically qualify for commemoration - their current omission being due solely to paperwork errors. The process will not find the names of those who died in service in the UK or those of dominion and colonial personnel. Equally, those in civilian organisations or men who died after discharge will not be found by IFCP. However, it will cover the bulk of those over whose qualification there is no doubt. To cover some of the men who died in service in the UK, a parallel exercise is being run using the 'Home' deaths listed in SDGW even though this will be an incomplete exercise as SDGW itself is incomplete in this respect. John Hartley is co-ordinating volunteers and running the allocation of sections of the GRO list and so he should be the first point of contact for volunteers. We have quite a few volunteers already but more are welcome. A volunteer must have access to the GRO Overseas Death Index on disk (£29) or a subscription to Find-my-Past - or a copy of the SDGW disk. If anyone is getting any of those from Santa this year, now is your chance to volunteer. This is a long term project but the more volunteers we get, the quicker we shall reach our goal. All names thought to be missing from CWGC's list will be double checked and any genuine cases will be forwarded by GWF for acceptance by CWGC/MoD. Each case will require the purchase of the name's death certificate (£7) and funding opportunities for this are being sought. However, we are launching now to get the donkeywork underway and start compiling the list of 'forgotten men' (Three have already been found during the preliminary work for this project). More on funding when there is news. All volunteers should note that this is purely a clerical exercise for them and it will be tedious at times. The GRO pages are often unclear and good eyesight (or a good magnifying glass) will be needed - as will be patience and a fair amount of spare time (Batches of ten pages at a time will be allocated by John - something over a thousand names per batch to be checked). Accuracy and attention to detail will be important. Despite the tedious nature of the work all volunteers will have the satisfaction of knowing that they are providing an important service to the cause of 'Remembrance'. Volunteers will get tired eyes but they will also get a warm glow of satisfaction when one of 'their' names is accepted and the man finally gets his due commemoration. It is now up to us. These men do not deserve to be forgotten and we can do something about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Bagshaw Posted 23 November , 2007 Share Posted 23 November , 2007 Terry, This is excellent news, a very worthwhile venture that i hope brings lads 'home'. I would volunteer to help but i don't have time at present with my own project. But good luck guys, i look forward to seeing the updates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCurragh Posted 23 November , 2007 Share Posted 23 November , 2007 Can I ask a question please - I've picked a random page of the GRO disks and looked at the first ten names - in that group, all men are commemorated on CWGC, but two had spelling differences - Cecil J Taban on GRO, Cecil G Saban on CWGC. John Taafe on GRO, J Taaffe on CWGC A quick look on Ancestry confirms that CWGC is correct for the both examples. Is it likely that in cases of difference, that CWGC is corect? And if not, as part of the search for "missing" men, are we also looking for men commemorated incorrectly? Thanks Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 23 November , 2007 Share Posted 23 November , 2007 Alan I'd have thought that, seeing as both sets of information will have been based on information originally supplied by the army, it is probably equally likely that CWGC & GRO has the correct version. But, yes, we are also looking for glaring errors of information on the CWGC record (which may be scanning errors or may date back to the time). But, subject to having my wrists smacked by Terry, I'd suggest that we are not going very far out of our way to find said errors - only if they become apparent during the checking. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drummy Posted 23 November , 2007 Share Posted 23 November , 2007 John, I am definately willing to get involved in this project, and will look at the options re subscription or purchasing the disc this weekend, I will send you a PM. My wife is due anytime now so I will be only able to do small amounts in the short term but in the long term will be able to increase my commitment. Even if the funding does not come about re the DC's etc. I would hope there will be some official acknowledgement as to the aims of the group as it becomes an established team, does the objectives overlap with the work being done by the 'Campaigners for War Grave Commerations' [one of the links from long long trail page] and will there be any partnership between those involved in that. I do not know any of the people involved in that group but note they appear to have had a number of non comms commemorated. A query for Terry, why do the CWGC not have a page on their website with a step by step guide to the process and required documentation for submitting a non comm query. I know that Terry has done much with this pinned section and his regular guidance on the section but still surprises me that there is nothing on the CWGC site itself, I appreciate we are not just talking UK but other member countries aswell form part of the CWGC but the principle is the same. Cheers Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 23 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 23 November , 2007 Drummy In answer to your first question... This is a GWF stand alone project but all members are welcome to join in. In answer to the second....It's not within CWGC's remit to seek new names. It is simply not their responsibility (odd though that may seem). They are obliged to commemorate only the names approved and supplied to them by the MoD and the other member country authorities. That is why all accceptances come from MoD and the other dominion equivalent departments. Confirming what John said earlier.... Any surname or service number discrepancies which come to light and appear to be an error on the CWGC site will be checked out. Naturally, some of the discrepancies may well be errors in GRO. It is not a perfect list. No list is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Munson Posted 24 November , 2007 Share Posted 24 November , 2007 John Hartley is co-ordinating volunteers and running the allocation of sections of the GRO list and so he should be the first point of contact for volunteers. A volunteer must have access to the GRO Overseas Death Index on disk (£29) John - I'm interested. Any clues where Santa can obtain this disc? Cheers Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frajohn Posted 24 November , 2007 Share Posted 24 November , 2007 Tery / John What a great idea, I'd like to offer my services. Like Terry, will need to put the disc on the Xmas list? Kind regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest geoff501 Posted 24 November , 2007 Share Posted 24 November , 2007 John - I'm interested. Any clues where Santa can obtain this disc? Cheers Terry Visit here: http://www.genealogysupplies.com/ and enter First World War in the search box top left of the page. Disc should come out first result: First World War Army, Army Officers and Navy Deaths 3CD set. geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 24 November , 2007 Share Posted 24 November , 2007 Geoff has it right. And anyone with a family owning very deep pockets can get a copy of SDGW from Naval & Military Press. Endless hours of fun, take my word it. So far, I have one volunteer who only has SDGW and will be undertaking that bit of the project. If there's anyone out there also with it and would like to help out, please post. John/Terry/Anyone else - Drop me a PM after Santa has been and I'll get you on the rota. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Bagshaw Posted 24 November , 2007 Share Posted 24 November , 2007 John, I have the SDGW disk, if you are struggling, i can do some look ups. Just let me know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Woodger Posted 24 November , 2007 Share Posted 24 November , 2007 John I have the SDGW disc and am ready to help petwr woodger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Woodger Posted 24 November , 2007 Share Posted 24 November , 2007 The fact that I can not spell my name right may worry the organisers Peter Woodger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest geoff501 Posted 24 November , 2007 Share Posted 24 November , 2007 The fact that I can not spell my name right may worry the organisers Not at all, the army could not spell too well, so you're perfectly qualified for the job goeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 24 November , 2007 Share Posted 24 November , 2007 Geoff - Just a reminder that I havnt had anything form you confirmingyou have the CD or FMP. You may have tried to send something but I think the Forum PM system is playing up. Anthony/Peter - assuming it works, PMs winging their way to you. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Munson Posted 24 November , 2007 Share Posted 24 November , 2007 Geoff, Thanks for the link. John, I have a printed version of SDGW Part 15 - The Lincolnshire Regiment. Perhaps I can use that until Santa calls? Cheers Terry 10th Battalion first?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 24 November , 2007 Share Posted 24 November , 2007 Terry 'fraid not, mate. We'll be working alphabetically. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 25 November , 2007 Share Posted 25 November , 2007 John didnt I mention that I have SDGW Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 25 November , 2007 Share Posted 25 November , 2007 Chris Yep, but I'm hoping that folk who also have access to GRO will do that part of the project leaving SDGW for those who only have it. Is that still OK with you? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 25 November , 2007 Share Posted 25 November , 2007 I'm happy to help, but I only have SDGW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 25 November , 2007 Share Posted 25 November , 2007 Chris Yep, but I'm hoping that folk who also have access to GRO will do that part of the project leaving SDGW for those who only have it. Is that still OK with you? John John no probs Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 26 November , 2007 Share Posted 26 November , 2007 Pals Just to confirm that everyone who has let me have their email address, etc, should now have received their first batch of names for checking. John (Needless to say, additonal volunteers will be more than welcome) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 26 November , 2007 Share Posted 26 November , 2007 John received yesterday thanks Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Mackenzie Posted 24 December , 2007 Share Posted 24 December , 2007 In answer to the second....It's not within CWGC's remit to seek new names. It is simply not their responsibility (odd though that may seem). They are obliged to commemorate only the names approved and supplied to them by the MoD and the other member country authorities. That is why all accceptances come from MoD and the other dominion equivalent departments. Terry. I know what you are saying but they must get queries on men 'missing' from the database - people are naturally going to contact CWGC in these instances before they contact the MoD. It would make sense for them to have a guide on their website explaining the process (and pointing people in the direction of the MoD). I would have thought it would save CWGC both time and money in the long run. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 24 December , 2007 Author Share Posted 24 December , 2007 Enquirers should not be pointed at MoD as CWGC is the first step in the process. MoD would only send enquiries back to them as a start. CWGC has to do the first check of any potential candidate for MoD and then pass it on. A large proportion of 'missing' men turn out not to be missing after all. Believe it or not, there are not that many such enquiries. In fact the vast majority of CWGC enquiries are from ordinary members of the public about their relatives' graves etc. Even enquiries from researchers are lower in number than you would think. CWGC has no responsibility for searching out new names. They must commemorate only those approved by the member countries' appropriate authorities. To most of us, this is a little cock-eyed and I suspect we all believe it should be part of their remit to search for names - but it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now