mikeydon Posted 22 November , 2007 Share Posted 22 November , 2007 can anybody help my great grandfather was kia on 3/11/1917 serving with this battalion. i know they were involved around cambrai at the time would anyone be able to suggest where i could get more detailed information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 22 November , 2007 Share Posted 22 November , 2007 Are you sure they were near Cambrai? The 57th Division were in the Ypres area on 3rd November 1917. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeydon Posted 22 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 22 November , 2007 Are you sure they were near Cambrai? The 57th Division were in the Ypres area on 3rd November 1917. Ken according to official records he went m.i.a. on te 3/11/1917, apparently they had been fighting in the Ypres area around the Langemarck sector. at the end of October the battalion was moved to Cambrai in preparation for the major offensive using tanks for the first time. on the 3/11/1917 he was killed. he has no known grave but is commemorated on the tyne cot memorial. for your information he was pte. Hugh Williams 380561 formerly 6302 Lancs Fusiliers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 23 November , 2007 Share Posted 23 November , 2007 Which official records are you referring to? 2/5th King's were part of the 171st Brigade, 57th Division. It wouldn't have been normal practice for a Division to split its resources and be fighting in two areas at the same time and I know that 172nd Brigade were in action on the Ypres front on 4th November. Also, the fact that he is commemorated at Tyne Cot suggests an Ypres death rather than one at Cambrai where he would, if memory serves me correctly, have been on the Cambrai Memorial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeydon Posted 23 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 23 November , 2007 Which official records are you referring to? 2/5th King's were part of the 171st Brigade, 57th Division. It wouldn't have been normal practice for a Division to split its resources and be fighting in two areas at the same time and I know that 172nd Brigade were in action on the Ypres front on 4th November. Also, the fact that he is commemorated at Tyne Cot suggests an Ypres death rather than one at Cambrai where he would, if memory serves me correctly, have been on the Cambrai Memorial. this information was taken from The History of the King's Liverpool Regiment 1914-1919 vol 1-3 i think they obtained information from the war diaries. the memorial situation has had me confused for a while. but i was also told by the regimental museum that the battalion had been posted to cambrai as it was a "quieter" sector after Ypres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 23 November , 2007 Share Posted 23 November , 2007 I think you need to check the Battalion War Diary to ascertain where the 2/5th were on that date. The National Archives will hold a copy, as will the Museum of Liverpool Life. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeydon Posted 23 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 23 November , 2007 I think you need to check the Battalion War Diary to ascertain where the 2/5th were on that date. The National Archives will hold a copy, as will the Museum of Liverpool Life. Ken thanks for your time, will try the national archives. went to the museum of life about a month ago and it was undergoing major refurbishment, not sure how long it will be shut thanks again mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted 23 November , 2007 Share Posted 23 November , 2007 Mike, If you are in Liverpool try the library at the Merseyside Maritime Museum which hold the WW1 battalion war diaries for the King's Liverpool Regiment. Otherwise as Ken mentioned before the National Archives will have them but it would be probably cheaper to make a visit to the archives than pay for a researcher. Good Luck with the research anyway. Blueblood (Phil) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connaughtranger Posted 23 November , 2007 Share Posted 23 November , 2007 Towards the end of October the front of the 171st Brigade (of which the 2/5th was a unit) ran from Raquete Farm to the Broembeke near Langemarck and Poelcapelle and reliefs were at Huddlestone Camp, Bridge Camp and Marsouin Camp. So awful was the state of the ground that only 1 night was spent by units in the front line, consisting of shell holes and mud, and they were actually moved right back to camp rather than into support. The 2/5th did their first stint on October 27th. During their time in the front line patrolling was the main activity and they had to endure continuous shelling, high explosive mixed with much gas. The 171st Brigade was relieved on the night of the 2nd November by the 172nd Brigade and appeared to have been out of the line until 17th December. It's possible that he was killed during the relief overnight, which would have taken several hours in the dreadful conditions. He may have been a victim of the gas or HE shelling as he moved away from the line, or as it states in the history, he may have succumbed, in the dark, to "falling into a hole deep in water with the possibility of drowning, or being engulfed in thick, stinking mud!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeydon Posted 24 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 24 November , 2007 Towards the end of October the front of the 171st Brigade (of which the 2/5th was a unit) ran from Raquete Farm to the Broembeke near Langemarck and Poelcapelle and reliefs were at Huddlestone Camp, Bridge Camp and Marsouin Camp. So awful was the state of the ground that only 1 night was spent by units in the front line, consisting of shell holes and mud, and they were actually moved right back to camp rather than into support. The 2/5th did their first stint on October 27th. During their time in the front line patrolling was the main activity and they had to endure continuous shelling, high explosive mixed with much gas. The 171st Brigade was relieved on the night of the 2nd November by the 172nd Brigade and appeared to have been out of the line until 17th December. It's possible that he was killed during the relief overnight, which would have taken several hours in the dreadful conditions. He may have been a victim of the gas or HE shelling as he moved away from the line, or as it states in the history, he may have succumbed, in the dark, to "falling into a hole deep in water with the possibility of drowning, or being engulfed in thick, stinking mud!" thanks very much for the details it is much appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Smith Posted 28 November , 2007 Share Posted 28 November , 2007 Mike Here's an extract from the war diary for Nov '17. Cheers Pete 2_5_klr_nov_17.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeydon Posted 28 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 28 November , 2007 Mike Here's an extract from the war diary for Nov '17. Cheers Pete thank you very much Pete, this is greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty2727 Posted 24 June , 2019 Share Posted 24 June , 2019 Hi Mike, I know this is a very old post now and hope you found the answers you were looking for! But just wanted to add to the post. My great grandfather was also 2/5th KLR and was in Eagle Trench at Marsouin Farm on the 2nd Nov when the trench was hit with Phos and Mustard gas. my relative was overcome with phos gas that night. I think for the month of Nov there was 12 casualties, although this seams very low to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeydon Posted 26 November , 2019 Author Share Posted 26 November , 2019 Hi Rusty Thanks for your message and attachments they are very helpful. I haven't been on this site for a while so sorry for not replying sooner. it is nice to hear from someone who had arelative in the same battalion. many thanks again mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty2727 Posted 28 January , 2021 Share Posted 28 January , 2021 Hi Mike, Sorry, i've not been on the site since i posted this and didn't get a notification of your reply! Just wanted to say your welcome if it helped in anyway! And yes, its great to speak with someone who had a relative in the same Battalion, i haven't come across many at all. You never no our relatives may have known each other....I wonder! Kind regards Russ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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