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Remembered Today:

Photograph Date Query


davetodd

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I am respectfully asking for help in dating the attached photographs.

It shows two merchant Navy Officers. On the right is I believe Robert S. Wilson born1884 and died 1949 who was my grandmothers brother,

he was a Second Engineer when the photographs were taken.

The man on the left is unknown,possibly the master of the vessel.

Unfortunately I do not know Wilson's Dis.A number and after four searches at the NA

have found nothing except his ID no. 105515.

Two experts at the NA have both said"If you don't have his Dis.A. No. then you are at a brick wall"

This is more or less the reply I had from Southampton Archives.

If anyone could estimate the year(s) that the photo. was taken or make a suggestion for the

shipping company. I would greatly appreciate this.

Better yet, can anyone identify the man (master) on the left.

Best regards

David S Todd

post-20989-1195579621.jpg

post-20989-1195579653.jpg

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David

I visit Southampton Archives now and then as I live nearby and I always search on the name,which is how they file them. I will do this for you when next I go. It may be that he has a record in the 5th Register at Kew,but with his DOB he may also have a card at Southampton. This card often has a photo taken at the time,and on the reverse side a list of the Official numbers of the vessels he has served on with the dates he has served. As for the Master you might be able to trace possibles back through the ships listed on back of any card I might be lucky to find.

The pic looks like a between-the wars job,and as such may reduce the likelihood of me coming up with anything meaningful.

Best wishes

Sotonmate

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David

I visit Southampton Archives now and then as I live nearby and I always search on the name,which is how they file them. I will do this for you when next I go. It may be that he has a record in the 5th Register at Kew,but with his DOB he may also have a card at Southampton. This card often has a photo taken at the time,and on the reverse side a list of the Official numbers of the vessels he has served on with the dates he has served. As for the Master you might be able to trace possibles back through the ships listed on back of any card I might be lucky to find.

The pic looks like a between-the wars job,and as such may reduce the likelihood of me coming up with anything meaningful.

Best wishes

Sotonmate

Thank you Sotonmate for your reply and offer.

His full name was Robert Sylvanus Wilson born 6 January 1884.

His CS 10 card at the NA did not reveal anything more than his rating given as Engineer,ID No. 105515 and his date of birth.

From the Ellis Island website I was able to find just one entry on manifests which could be him.

Vessel SAMARIA date of arrival 26 November 1923 when he is listed as Robert Wilson Jun 2nd Eng age 39

Height 5'10" and weight 161lbs. but with such a common name,it may not be him.

What intigues me about the photographs is that the two men seem to be well known to each other so perhaps related or have sailed together for some time.

Best Regards and wishes

David S Todd

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David

It's the CR10 cards I look at,and also CR1 where a temporary ID is used on non-production of CR10 when they sign on to a new ship.

You will have noticed that the men are from different shipping companies as their cap badges are different,much as you might see today,should you ever see two officers with caps on ! I suppose it is a fair chance that they are meeting up for a chin wag from different ships and could be related.

Best wishes

Sotonmate

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Sotonmate

Yes, the cap badges are different and the chap on the left seems to have medal ribbons on his jacket, so that may mean as you say that it is between wars.

They appear to be known to each other.

Cheers

David

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David, just a thought, but could the `Master' be RNR Merchant Officer (re Cap Badge) - would explain him having `gongs'. The Badge is certainly / possibly more RN than Merchant. Certainly being a `four-ringer' he would be `Captain'.

Have no real `expertise' in such matters.

KOKO Sadsac

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Surely this is a lopng way post war or perhaps even WW2? Seems to me the subject is far older than 30-34 years old!!

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Surely this is a lopng way post war or perhaps even WW2? Seems to me the subject is far older than 30-34 years old!!

Hello Blackblue

Thank you for your reply and comment.

If you could show me that the photographs were definitely taken after 1918,then I would certainly ask the moderator/administrator if in their opinion this query should be removed from this forum.

I would be grateful for any evidence you may submit.

Best Regards

David S Todd

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Hi David,

All I meant was perhaps we should be having a look at WW2 records as well as a starting point! If this fellow is in his early 30s in this photo I will eat my socks. :)

Rgds

Tim

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  • 2 months later...

Dave

At last,a visit to Southampton Archives. I suspect that the picture I now have is the same that you have details of,it's the CR10 identity record card. It has no Dis A Number,only the ID Cert 105515 MNS region EA (East Anglia) No 79376AX. It's hard to associate the pic on the card with the pic on your thread,mine has no uniform,and only head and shoulders,maybe a bit more burly than in your pic.They are definitely in the 1930s or 1940s in your pic !

If you don't have it and want it I will send it (by snailmail) so please PM me your details.

Sorry it took so long,this was my first visit since December !

Best wishes

Sotonmate

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Dave

At last,a visit to Southampton Archives. I suspect that the picture I now have is the same that you have details of,it's the CR10 identity record card. It has no Dis A Number,only the ID Cert 105515 MNS region EA (East Anglia) No 79376AX. It's hard to associate the pic on the card with the pic on your thread,mine has no uniform,and only head and shoulders,maybe a bit more burly than in your pic.They are definitely in the 1930s or 1940s in your pic !

If you don't have it and want it I will send it (by snailmail) so please PM me your details.

Sorry it took so long,this was my first visit since December !

Best wishes

Sotonmate

Thank you Sotonmate for taking the time and trouble to search at Southampton.

It would seem that you have found what I did, an ID card but no Dis.A. No.

I took a copy of this at T.N.A. and from your discription, it is the same.

I have recently found out that he may have received WW1 medals for his time in a war zone.

This, I am following up as it may lead to his Dis.A.No.

But that will have to wait until I next visit T.N.A.

Thank you once again

Best Regards

Dave

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David, just a thought, but could the `Master' be RNR Merchant Officer (re Cap Badge) - would explain him having `gongs'. The Badge is certainly / possibly more RN than Merchant. Certainly being a `four-ringer' he would be `Captain'.

Have no real `expertise' in such matters.

KOKO Sadsac

Neither of these men are Royal Navy. The sleeve rings are Merchant Service in both cases. Also a captain (RN) would have 'scrambled egg' on his cap. At a guess I would say they are shipmates of long standing on a chance meeting in port. Date ? Either between wars, or more probably in port assembling for a WW2 convory.

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Neither of these men are Royal Navy. The sleeve rings are Merchant Service in both cases. Also a captain (RN) would have 'scrambled egg' on his cap. At a guess I would say they are shipmates of long standing on a chance meeting in port. Date ? Either between wars, or more probably in port assembling for a WW2 convory.

Sorry ' WW2 convoy .'

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