Memorial for Catholic Irish Soldier

[jimmie]

Yesterday's "Irish Independent" (for 17/11/07) contained a letter from John Cassidy of Hastings, Sussex ( no other details given) asking for help in finding whether a great uncle, who died in the War, of wounds, on 08/10/1917, is commemorated anywhere on a cenotaph or war memorial, as his parents, now both in their 80's, would like to visit the site to pay their respects. They have already been to his grave in Bailleul Cemetery.

The soldier's name was Danny Cassidy of Whitehouse, Co. Antrim and he joined the Connaught Rangers in Belfast, 1914 ( Reg. No. 4684) before moving to the Royal Irish Fusiliers ( Reg. No. 43090) when the majority of the Rangers were wiped out.

Can anyone assist?

Jim

[johnnyg]

Jim,

The following entry is on the CWGC roll of honour;

CASSIDY

Initials: D

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Royal Irish Fusiliers

Unit Text: 7th/8th Bn.

Date of Death: 08/06/1917

Service No: 43090

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: III. C. 236.

Cemetery: BAILLEUL COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION (NORD)

If you follow the link below it will give you all the cemetary details.

http://www.cwgc.org/search/cemetery_detail...0048&mode=1

Hope this helps.

Johnny

[Guest KevinEndon]

Are you after a memorial either in the R.O.I. or U.K. which has Cassidys name on it rather than his burial cemetery in France.

Kevin

[johnnyg]

Jim,

His grave is located as follows;

619 CASSIDY , D Private 43090 Royal Irish Fusiliers 08/06/1917 Unknown III. C. 236.

Good luck

Johnny

[jimmie]

I think Kevin is right, Johnny, that John Cassidy of Hastings wants to find a memorial in Ireland or the UK as opposed to the actual grave which he and his parents have already visited.

Regards,

Jim

[jimmie]

Further thoughts on the matter:

In the civil war situation which existed in Ireland after 1918, was it a dangerous thing to do for a catholic family to apply for their loved one to be formally recognised on a British war memorial? Would some people see it as saying "..we support the British Empire, link with Westminster etc, etc" and lay oneself open to retribution? And what was the view of many Protestants to Catholics being commemorated in this way?

Jim

[johnnyg]

Sorry Jim for not reading the post properly. The main memorial in Ireland is the War Memorial Gardens in Islandbridge in Dublin. It's a beautiful Lutyens designed park beside the river Liffey just a couple of miles from the city centre. The roll of honour contains the names of all the Irish soldiers killed during world war 1. It has now become the venue for the British Legion annual commeration ceremony in Ireland. Wreathes have been laid for individual soldiers so this might be the perfect method of commerating Pte. Cassidy. I'm sure if they contact the British Legion in Dublin they would be pleased to help.

There are many other memorials scattered throughout the country but not list individual soldiers. Check out the excellent www.irishwarmemorials.ie for a full list.

As for your question regarding the environment after the war, well it's an emotive issue to say the least. It's a well worn debate which I'm sure has filled many pages on this forum.

I won't go into the rights or wrongs of what happened, it's easy 80 years on to have an opinion. But they were forgotten.

That situation is changing now but you still won't see many poppies being worn in November.

Many families never returned any information to the CWGC to be included on the roll of honour. Hence the bare minimum of data on many entries. In extreme cases some veterans were killed as spies, many were shunned but all were probably encouraged to be silent about their time in Khaki. I feel great pity for the returning soldiers, it must have been confusing for them after being cheered out in 1914, encouraged by their leaders to go to fight for little catholic Belgium & home rule for Ireland, to come back to jeers, indifference & even hate. Particularly after what they had endured.

As I said it's an emotive issue & as someone said to me there's 3 sides to every story, his, hers & the truth.

[rob elliott]

Jim,

Daniel came from whitehouse near to Newtownabbey, beside Belfast Lough, so this is where he may be commemorated.

I think the Imperial War Museum may be able to search the data base of war memorials that were recorded over the last few years.

Thats if those around Newtownabbey were done.

Regarding Southern ex-servicemen having to keep a low profile, i have read a lot of accounts where there were large gatherings of them, particularly in Dublin up until the late 20's when the Union Jack was still carried. These would not have all been Protestant ex-servicemen.

There seems to be a denial that there was ever such a thing as a Loyal catholic ex-serviceman and the reasons for them joining the army was always with a Nationalist agenda. This is probably why many did keep their heads down, for fear of being pointed out as a Loyalist and getting shot. Put their medals away and don't mention the war.

I have a tape of an interview with a guy called Jack Campbell from Dublin, ex Black watch. Was supposed to have been with Bowes Lyon when he was killed. Said his proudest moment was meeting the Queen mum years later.Said his four brothers who served were the same.

When the civil war broke out there were plenty of ex-servicemen joined the Free state army.

What motivated these guys to join up to fight the IRA? Revenge? The civil war was far more brutal than the Tan war.

Up in the North, in Londonderry, James Duffy VC of Letterkenny Donegal, laid a wreath on many occassions and was, as you would expect, well respected. The IRA kidnapped him in the early 20's but released him unharmed, when they realised how highly he was thought of.

The South and West of Ireland may have been a problem for some ex-soldiers, but considering the numbers that served i think it was a small minority that were harmed. And in those times you could not tell if it was personnal animosity that was the reason rather than political. Easy to shoot someone and put the word 'SPY' against it.

Rob

[Desmond7]

I have a picture of James Duffy VC meeting the Queen in 1966!

As for Catholics on war memorials ....the town I live in could probably be termed the most 'Prod/loyal' of towns ... I can assure you that the names of Catholic fallen were recorded with equal veneration as those of any protestant. Sectarian polarity was not as extreme as some people would make out.

[jimmie]

Thanks for all the comments and particularly the last 3 from Johnny, Rob and Desmond. I'll pass them on to John Cassidy so he can decide how he wishes to proceed. It's not easy to fully appreciate how people would have reacted in the civil war situation which existed 80 odd years ago but it seems common sense to keep ones head down and avoid drawing attention to oneself for any reason whatever and therefore it's quite possible that Danny Cassidy's family did likewise and he may not be commemorated on any memorial in the North, although they could remedy this now if they wish.

Johnny, the info. on the Irish memorial web site is very useful and especially the links they provide to other sites but soldiers from the North are not yet included although it's said they hope to do this in the future.

Jim

[Michael Pegum]

Johnny, the info. on the Irish memorial web site is very useful and especially the links they provide to other sites but soldiers from the North are not yet included although it's said they hope to do this in the future.

Jim

In fact, the inventory of Irish War Memorials does have memorials from four of the counties of Northern Ireland, though admittedly only about 40 memorials in all. I'm afraid Danny Cassidy is not included, but there no memorials from Co. Antrim as yet, anyway.

Contributors to the website and inventory are always welcome, and full information on how to contribute can be downloaded from the site.

Michael Pegum

[staunton]

Regarding Jack Campbell mentioned above (Black Watch) RTE have several clips of him online from 1988

http://www.rte.ie/archives/exhibitions/1011-ireland-and-the-great-war/1012-call-to-arms/315166-jack-campbell-joining-the-british-army/

 

He had 4 brothers in RCHA, Ir Gds, RE (WIA), RDF (KIA) - as a BEF veteran he is probably the 9229 1st Bn BW on the medal rolls

[William John]

As Whitehouse is in Co. Antrim in the north of Ireland may I suggest you look at ulsterwarmemorials.net. This site contains photographs and information on many dozens of war memorials in that part of Ireland, along with lists of names, units, etc. They were able to confirmed an old family story that my wife’s great-great uncle was awarded the M.M. at the Somme plus the criteria for the award.

William John.