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Remembered Today:

French Trench Maps


Smithmaps
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The French Trench Maps used an entirely different system to ours.

I am trying to research the numbering system, and indeed find out how many maps were done, and the extent.

I am therefore looking for one of the most important features, the Map Key.

Does anybody have one, or a copy of one, or know of any institution that holds one.

I believe that there were multiple keys, and they were done at 10,000 scale, and done at 20,000 scale.

Also any information on numbers or lists of them.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Guy

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Guy, i have a feeling i have Map Key for French maps i will have a look today

regards John

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guy, i have "conventional map signs british and french" January 1918, i also have a booklet "list of conventional signs and abbreviations in use on french and german maps " very highly detailed 46 pages printed in 1918

best regards John

{i can scan the former if you let me have an e-mail address}

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Guy, i have a feeling i have Map Key for French maps i will have a look today

regards John

John

That would be fantastic. Even the IWM doesn't have one would you believe.

Guy

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do you wish me to send it to your e-mail?

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Sorry,

I think my post might have confused.

What I am looking for is a French equivalent Map Key which might show a large portion of France, and on it have printed the various French map outlines and their names or numbers, in whatever scales I can find.

A bit like the one printed on the front of every British trench map, but the French equivalent.

Or a list of which maps they printed. I am trying to understand how many they did, and what parts of France they covered, and in what scales.

Many thanks

Guy

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Guy

have you contacted the Library at the RE Museum I'm sure they will have some examples. I live in Chatham and could go to the Library for you.

John

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Guy

have you contacted the Library at the RE Museum I'm sure they will have some examples. I live in Chatham and could go to the Library for you.

John

That is a very kind offer.

If you definately think they are there, perhaps I should ring them first to ask the question?

I would not want you making a wasted journey.

Thank you for the tip, it is worth a try.

Guy

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Is this the type of key that you want it is for the french Maps.

John

post-1365-1195420765.jpg

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Is this the type of key that you want it is for the French Maps.

John

John

thank you, that is exactly the kind of thing I am looking for.

However, the problem is that the numbering system was completely different for each map scale, and did not make sense or transfer between scales.

The one you post is for 1:80,000 scale, and the maps printed at this scale showed no trenches.

I am specifically searching for equivalent keys for 1:20,000 and 1:10,000 scales.

Many thanks, however, for the post, it is much appreciated.

Guy

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John

thank you, that is exactly the kind of thing I am looking for.

However, the problem is that the numbering system was completely different for each map scale, and did not make sense or transfer between scales.

The one you post is for 1:80,000 scale, and the maps printed at this scale showed no trenches.

I am specifically searching for equivalent keys for 1:20,000 and 1:10,000 scales.

Many thanks, however, for the post, it is much appreciated.

Guy

Guy,

Different sets of maps for the French had different systems. The various fortified places were mapped at 1:20,000 (plan directeur) as center-point and extending out to a certain distance. The 1:80,000 set was of course based on the earlier survey of France. There is the 1:5,000 series as well--of course produced locally for attacks.

I would ask IGN as well. I've queried them on various maps used by the French army during the war--and though slow to answer they will usually get back to you. Have you looked in "Artillery's Astrologer's," by Chasseaud? I would imagine he would have this somewhere in his book.

The 1:20,000's I have for Verdun have the reference "Coupure No XXX" in the left corner--but I couldn't tell you the system involved.

Paul

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Guy

I am at RE's Library tomorrw 20th November, I am going for another reason but will enquire about the Map Keys.

John

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Guy

I am at RE's Library tomorrw 20th November, I am going for another reason but will enquire about the Map Keys.

John

John

You are very kind thank you. I look forward to what they say.

Paul,

I am making enquiries in France, but as you say, it takes an age.

Isn't it amazing how little information survives about these things.

All the best

Guy

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Guy

I am afraid no information from the RE Library, but from my sources from books which I have, I have gleaned the following information,. With the foremost insight to the various Treaty obligations by the British Government concerns were raised about the map coverage that would be required, if and when hostilities broke out, and the preparation of the appropiate maps, this evently took place between 1906-1914. The decision as to the scale was governed by the tactile assumption of the General Staff (they assumed it would be a fast moving war) this of course was proved wrong. I will list some maps Serial numbers you made need to help in your research

Serial Scale Printed Title Details

TSGS2148 1:3m WO March 1916 Index to French 1:80,000

GSGS2501 Franch Index to 1:1000,000

GSGS2526 1:80,000 1909 Onwards France Series

GSGS2729 1:40:000 1914 France, Environs of Havre

I could dig up some information perhaps, you could try OS at Southampton.

John

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John

Thank you very much indeed for trying, I will keep searching.

I have some enquiries out in France at present, which may be more fruitful.

Thanks again and especially for asking at the RE Museum.

Guy

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