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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

2 Unknown WW1 Badges


Jarvis
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No idea what the top one is the bottom one is a collar of The East Surrey Regt

P.B.

Hello P.B, thanks for the East Surrey collar ID.

The first one has me baffled, looks like an eagle so could be German or even American I suppose.

Regards

Jarvis

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The left hand one has a single headed eagle. It doesnt look Prussian I wonder if it could be Polish. It also looks quite big so perhaps off a helmet or shako of some kind rather than a field cap. It need not be army it could be post, police, customs border guards etc as well.

Greg

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The one with the eagle looks polish - or something else eastern - to me. Probably Polish because of the clawed feet spread apart the way they are? Would an american unit have a crown above their badge?

Allie

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I think I have changed my mind the Polish eagle is normally displayed crowned-the way forward is to identify the coronet and cap of maintenance on top of the shield. This looks continental and may reflect the rank of count or baron-given the number of points with pearls- this could mean that it was a badge for wear on livery.

Greg

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Well, not all prussian eagle-badges had two heads, could it be prussian? That being said, the prussian ones I've seen tend to be holding something in each claw.

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Hmmm

There are thousands of variations but normally the Prussian eagle is also crowned as well as holding an orb and sceptre. Sometimes you see variations with some sort of additional heraldic device on its chest.

Would it be possible to see the back of the badge? I wonder if it is for horse furniture?

Greg

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Jarvis

No basis for fact, as yet, but my first reaction was that it was Russian.

Sotonmate

PS. (Later edit). Now see that Russian Eagles of this time were double-headed !

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I agree with Greg,a picture of the back of the unknown badge might provide more clues

P.B.

Hello, the reverse appears to have a 'slider' type attachment.

I have also thought along the 'Prussian' lines, but as already pointed out, there are no objects held by the talons, nor any heraldic shield at the breast. Still a mystery at the moment, but trying to resolve exactly what this is.

Regards,

Jarvis

post-15884-1195305061.jpg

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For what it's worth, I don't think it is even 'military' in the strict sense of the word. The crown / coronet doesn't look like a real one, but a fanciful design.

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Hello, you could well be right. There are no numerals or regimental clues, just a design and crown.

It may also turn out not to be WW1. I am hoping a Forum member can threw more light on the badge.

I have never seen one like this before, but then again, I have no real expertise on badges in general, although I have a little knowledge on the British ones. Thanks for the input, it had crossed my mind it may not be military.

Regards,

Jarvis

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The reverse does not help me, hopefully if might offer a clue to someone else

I was not expecting a slider. Is there another attachment fitting at the bottom ?

Could be one for the Gentlemens Club to identify

P.B.

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I have spent all afternon googling this one. Theere is soemthing about it that makes me think it is mroe than just a 'souvenir item'.The sliders make me think it was designed to be worn. The quality is not brilliant but somebody had to make a die to manufacture it which is quite costly. The sliders actually remind me very much of those on the badge of my artillery pouch belt. Could have come off a pouch, or cross belt. The 'crown' is of a continental pattern- it does not have 'arches of sovereignty' but it does have five pearls which could make it a baron not of the 'original nobility' and clearly has a cap of maintenance indicating a feudal landholder.

I wondered about it being the arms of one of the subordinate holdings of one of the monarchs-ie Emperors of Austria were also Counts of Tyrol- and therefore the insignia might have come from one of the subordinate territories. If it was military however one would expect something with the crown indicating sovereignty and why use the coronet and cap of maintenance of a baron?.

This brings me back to the idea of an item worn with livery in a noble household.

May I ask Jarvis what the provenance was? Was it located in an old box with the East Surrey badge or just somethng picked up over the years?

You could try putting it up on the Austro Hugarian army site and seeing if someone there identifies it.

Puzzled but intrigued

Greg

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I have spent all afternon googling this one. Theere is soemthing about it that makes me think it is mroe than just a 'souvenir item'.The sliders make me think it was designed to be worn. The quality is not brilliant but somebody had to make a die to manufacture it which is quite costly. The sliders actually remind me very much of those on the badge of my artillery pouch belt. Could have come off a pouch, or cross belt. The 'crown' is of a continental pattern- it does not have 'arches of sovereignty' but it does have five pearls which could make it a baron not of the 'original nobility' and clearly has a cap of maintenance indicating a feudal landholder.

I wondered about it being the arms of one of the subordinate holdings of one of the monarchs-ie Emperors of Austria were also Counts of Tyrol- and therefore the insignia might have come from one of the subordinate territories. If it was military however one would expect something with the crown indicating sovereignty and why use the coronet and cap of maintenance of a baron?.

This brings me back to the idea of an item worn with livery in a noble household.

May I ask Jarvis what the provenance was? Was it located in an old box with the East Surrey badge or just somethng picked up over the years?

You could try putting it up on the Austro Hugarian army site and seeing if someone there identifies it.

Puzzled but intrigued

Greg

Nothing that exciting I'm afraid, the two are only related in that they both appear on eBay (seperately) at the moment.

I use eBay to collate pictures of various WW1 regimental badges in an effort to have a pictorial reference at hand on my machine.

At the moment I am putting together a kind of scrap book of Allied badges, mainly for use in a memorial web-site I have been working on.

I noticed the 'mystery' one today and just hadn't seen its like before, so thought where better to find out than the Forum.

I have spent some time today trawling web images but I am still no nearer an exact determination of this badge.

Be nice if someone 'in the know' could come up with the answer.

Regards,

Jarvis.

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