Army Units in Ulster 1913-14

[Guest laburnham]

Does anyone know where I may find out about the army units stationed in Belfast, including any TA units, around 1913-1914 ?. Where might a role call of soldiers names in these regiments be obtained . I am also wondering if all of the army units in Ulster actually went overseas to fight in WW1 or did some units remain in Ulster for the duration of the Great War.

My interest is in tracing a great uncle called Frank Hardy born in 1886 and died 1955 plus a grandfather called Edward Bermingham born 1894 both men were born in Ireland and lived in Belfast just before the start of WW1 . They knew each other before they became related through marriage and were both soldiers but in what regiment I know not.

I have tried the usual internet sites in England for army records, including Kew but without success and I am now trying to tune into the Irish (British) army units in Ireland which appear to differ somewhat from the mainland units. I am nearly sure that both men joined the British army in Belfast so where do I go from here.? any help would be appreciated, thanks

[centurion]

This is I think the complete list of regular, territorial and reserve units in Ulster in 1914

Regular

Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers

Royal Irish Rifles

Royal Irish Fusiliers

Reserve

North Irish Horse (Belfast)

Territorial

Royal Tyrone Militia (3rd Bat RInF)

Fermanagh Militia (4th Bat RInF)

Royal Antrim Militia (3rd Bat RIR)

Royal North Down Militia (4th Bat RIR)

Royal South Down Militia (5th Bat RIR)

Armagh Militia (3rd Bat RIF)

Cavan Militia (4th Bat RIF)

Note only one is Belfast specific. However from my own family's experience it was quite usual for a man to enlist in Northern Ireland in a unit that was not directly connected with where he lived. Thus two of my great uncles. although Armagh men, joined the Royal Irish Rifles rather than the Royal Irish Fusiliers (Armagh militia). The Royal Dublin Fusiliers whilst based in the south often recruited in the North (my grandfather joined them as did the grandfather of a collegue of mine who was also an Ulsterman). A third Armagh great uncle ended up in the London regiment

[ollydot]

As far as I know some Scottish regiments also recruited in Belfast.

[centurion]

Further to the above after 1914 the RIR regularised and absorbed many units of the volunteer Ulster Defence Force (UDF) (not the more recent UDF!) which would include many belfast men.

[ollydot]

Didn't get any more info about the regiments but neither of those 2 men signed the covenant which would suggest that they didn't join as a result of UVF membership, so probably not in 36th div but wouldn't completely rule that out. However, search in familysearch.org produced several Ed ward Berminghams including one Lord of Athenry, - unusual name.

[rob elliott]

Laburnham,

A quick check on the medal card index on the National Archives website shows only two Edward Bermingham's having served.

one in the Liverpool regiment and one in the Lincolnshire regiment.

Cross checking with Frank Hardy shows that there is a card for him also with the Lincs.

The Edwards number was 37055 and the Franks 38143.

I'm not familiar with the Lincs at all so don't know their numbering methods, but if its anything like alphabetical like some regiments then these could be your men. Now it may depend on if the Lincolnshire regiment were in Belfast before the war and these guys joined as regulars or they may just have decided to go for an English regiment,could have been working in England or may not be them at all.

Centurion,

I think when you say UDF you mean UVF-ULSTER VOLUNTEER FORCE.

But NO unit of the UVF joined the British Army. Individual members of UVF units attested into the British Army, quite often en-masse but not as a unit.The names given to the Battalions of the Division reflected the areas of recruitment.

The only Battalion of the Division that kept its full title indicating its pre war affiliation was the 14th Rifles, the Young Citizen Volunteers, which was not part of the pre war UVF although had similar aims.

In late August 1914 Lord Kitchener approached Tom Hickman, MP for Wolverhampton, Chairman of the British League for the Defence of Ulster and said 'whats the chances of getting the members of the UVF to join up'. Hickman went to Carson who agreed to advise the men to join subject to certain conditions being met. One was the name ULSTER being used in the Divisions title.

This was initially rejected, however when it was realised a compromise was required it was accepted together with the other conditions.

Recruiting then started for the Ulster Division. By this time all reservists had gone off to their respective units, some being brought back [Officers and NCOs']. Others who were keen to go had already enlisted in other Battalions.

The UVF units stayed active throughout the war and carried out work on behalf of the Division, raising comfort funds, paying for ambulances etc And the UVF hospital was founded at James Craig's old house in Belfast.

Rob

[pbrydon]

I had always thought that the there were no Territorials in Ireland untill 1947 ( at least as far as infantry was concerned ).

There is a distinction between Territorial and Militia Battalions.

P.B.

[centurion]

Rob

Yes initials often confuse - you are right. At least one batt of the RIR seems to have been almost exclusively ex UVF and it was my understanding from some of my elderly relatives (alas no longer with us to reconsult) who were around at the time that whole units of the UVF joined as one. Technically I suppose the men were recruited as individuals but the practical effect was the same. I suspect this is how ny two Armagh G Uncles joined.

[Ron Clifton]

I had always thought that the there were no Territorials in Ireland untill 1947 ( at least as far as infantry was concerned ).

There is a distinction between Territorial and Militia Battalions.

P.B.

PB is right. The units shown above as "Territorial" were in fact Special Reserve, the successors of the older Militia.

Centurion's list is correct as regards the regiments recruited in Ulster, but the actual Regular infantry battalions stationed in Ulster in 1914 were:

1st Bn Norfolk Regt (Holywood)

1st Bn Bedfordshire Regt (Mullingar)

1st Bn Cheshire Regt (Londonderry)

1st Bn Regt (Belfast)

all of 15th Infantry Brigade.

16 Company Royal Artillery, and the Antrim Special Reserve Artillery, formed the North Irish Coast Defences.

33 Company ASC and 15 Company RAMC were also at Belfast.

Ron

[ollydot]

re UVF recruitment into british army, I do know that whole groups of UVF men joined up together, my great grandmother who only died in 1973 told me about the day her husband and the rest of his UVF batt. formed up and marched en masse to the recruiting office. Not sure if it was batt in the true sense of the word but it certainly was the group of men who trained and marched the street of north Belfast together.

[centurion]

re UVF recruitment into british army, I do know that whole groups of UVF men joined up together, my great grandmother who only died in 1973 told me about the day her husband and the rest of his UVF batt. formed up and marched en masse to the recruiting office. Not sure if it was batt in the true sense of the word but it certainly was the group of men who trained and marched the street of north Belfast together.

Pretty much what my grandmother told me about her two brothers (except the location was Omagh not Belfast)

[rob elliott]

Ollydot,

North Belfast was probably the closest you would get to whole units joining, as at a review on Oct 3rd 1914, 800 men paraded for Carson prior to signing up.

There were seven battalions in North Belfast UVF, 6000 men.

As you can see no single battalion enlisted en-bloc otherwise the figure would be much higher than 800. In fact this figure is quite low.

In County Tyrone Col Ambrose Ricardo anticipated the forming of the Ulster Division and encouraged his men to hold back until it was formed.

He became the CO of the 9th Inniskillings, which i think were originally called the 3rd Volunteer btn. until the Division was put together by the War Office.

There are a lot of myths about the Ulster Divisions formation and the numbers that joined from the UVF.

The UVF was 80,000 strong yet the Division in some districts struggled to fill the Btns.

The YCV is another unit that didn't enlist quite as it is made out in some quarters.

South Down [County] UVF only supplied 102 men.

Of the 18,000 forming the Division about 14-15,000 would have been Ulstermen.

I have similar stories in my own family, from Londonderry.

Rob

[pietro]

@ Ron,

You seem to have access to info on the English battalions stationed in Ireland, do you know who was in Newcastle, Co Down during early 1917 (ish)?

TIA,

Peter

[andiS]

1st Dorsets were in Belfast in 1913 and 1914, they were mobilized as part of the BEF direct from Belfast in August 1914