Jewish Graves

[Len Trim]

Hi all,

just remembered that when I was on my recent trip to the Somme and the Salient I noticed that many (all?) of the Jewish gravestones had small pebbles on the top of the gravestone. Presumably an act of remembrance. What is the actual story or religious significance?

Len

[jay dubaya]

Hi Len,

when the tradition started, graves were mounds of stones. Visitors added stones to the mound to show we are never finished building the monument to the deceased,

cheers, Jon

[Tom Morgan]

A jewish teacher once explained this to me. In ancient times, Jewish graves were covered by piles of stones to prevent wild animals from digging up the bodies. It was considered an act of charity for travellers who found isolated graves to place more stones or tidy up any stones which had fallen or been moved. The modern version of this is for Jews to place small stones on graves they have visited. They do this as a mark of respect, in the same way that Christians might leave flowers.

Tom

[John_Hartley]

Plenty of previous threads on the subject. The "search" facility will find them - entering +stones +jewish would be a good bet. Or perhaps, +pebbles +jewish.

John

[alliekiwi]

Do the CWGC clear them away?

Allie

[IanA]

Do the CWGC clear them away?

Allie

Yes.

[Len Trim]

Thanks for the prompt replies. I added a few pebbles myself.

Len

[Guest mruk]

One of the other customs in Judaism is to visit the deceased's grave one year later; to light a candle, say a prayer, and read the inscription aloud. I do think it is a shame though that the CWGC remove any stones-which is something I consider almost tantamount to desecration and a lack of respect for those who lie under. It's a shandeh!

Dave

It's also a shame that Steph's thread was pulled by one of the Mods. There was potential, and a tangible link to the past. To the Mod in question, though, and he knows who he is: Stick to your cookery books, love. You make a poor adjudicator.

[jay dubaya]

Hi ya Dave,

It is almost tantamount to desecration, but I accept the fact that the CWGC remove the stones (I'd like to know where they go mind), they reappear year after year.

I was also dissapointed to see that Steph's thread was pulled, 'off topic' hmmmm I saw the direct link and the potential for an informative thread,

cheers, Jon

[Guest mruk]

Hi Jon,

I hope things are well. There is a district called Kazimierz on the outskirts of Krakow, and during WWII the area was systematically destroyed and purged of Jews. This also included an attack on the graves, which were then used as paving. Some dated back centuries, and others from the more recent past-including the First World War. After the war efforts were made to salvage as much as possible, and if you visit the Kazimierz district today will will find a memorial wall which has been erected in the old synagogue. So, yes, there is a link, and one which is always worth pursuing. It's almost like saying any discussion on the Thiepval Memorial is off-topic because it was built post-1918. It doesn't make sense. In fact there are plenty of Jewish names inscribed on there, too.

Cheers,

Dave

[Greyhound]

I was also dissapointed to see that Steph's thread was pulled, 'off topic' hmmmm I saw the direct link and the potential for an informative thread.

I agree too. At first glance the thread title suggested it might be off topic, but having taken the trouble to read the ensuing discussion, I soon realised it wasn't.

[bruce]

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember that CWGC staff used to inspect headstones and mark those which needed replacement with a stone atop, so those following could easily spot them. This went out of the window after the release of Shindler's List. Now, in most CWGC cemeteries, you can spot a Jewish grave from the gate.

Bruce

[Le_Treport]

I agree too. At first glance the thread title suggested it might be off topic, but having taken the trouble to read the ensuing discussion, I soon realised it wasn't.

I also noted with a sense of irony that the topic was closed with the comment 'Not WW1 related' followed by a sig file which was certainly not WW1 related!

[PhilB]

I returned to my host`s house from a walk round an Australian cemetery with a nice seashell I picked up. I was quizzed as to where I found it and I said it was on a grave. I was told to go and put it back as it`s an Aboriginal custom.

[Muerrisch]

Some years ago, when there was a wave of anti-Semitic desecration of CWGC headstones in France, I visited with friends, who wondered aloud if stones on Jewish headstones were placed by those who intended a swift bit of desecration later. So, to our shame, we removed them.

I never go past a Jewish headstone now without placing a stone, a form of atonement. And me a practising Christian.

[Steven Broomfield]

Thanks for raising this: it's something I'd wondered about.

I have also seen coins (small denomination - couple of cents, pennies, etc): is this for the same reason?

[Take on me]

I always thought that stones on top of a grave were stones from the place that the indiviual came from, I don't know why I thought this, just seemed logical...

Jon

[Guest mruk]

Hello Steve,

There's a lot of superstition involved in the Jewish way of death, and it is also believed by some that a dying child will be saved if nominally sold to a friend or neighbour for a shekel. There's also a great deal of myth surrounding the rites and rituals. Most Jews believe in the equality of the world to come, and this often includes the garments worn in death, which is usually a plain, simple white shroud, with no pockets--because you can't take it with you. It makes sense, though I'm not sure about the custom of placing money on the stone, although I could be wrong.

Cheers,

Dave

[maurice davis]

I was told by the head Gardner who used to be in charge of Delville wood cemetery that they removed any stones left on top of graves because when they mow the grass and no not finish mowing that day they themselves leave a stone on top of the grave stone to show where they had got to the previous day in-case it was different people who came to finish off the job

regards

Maurice

[alliekiwi]

I do think it is a shame though that the CWGC remove any stones-which is something I consider almost tantamount to desecration and a lack of respect for those who lie under. It's a shandeh!

The problem with that is what other cultural customs do the CWGC have to be aware of and not compromise by clearing away?

There was another thread recently that talked about 'vandalisation' of graves because of various things being left there - photo of the deceased that have been attached to the headstone, and personal items and the like. All are cleared by the CWGC after a period of time has elapsed. If I remember correctly from the thread, the CWGC staff apparently catelogue what was left where. (I'm guessing this doesn't include poppies from the RBL.) Yet some of those same items could have been part of a funereal or mourning process by the family.

Allie

[wroclaw]

The source of this custom – it is not clearly known since no prime religious writing mentions it. These days the custom is simply representing the gesture of saying “I’ve been here and paid my respects”. Most people (Jewish) will remember to follow the costume only when seeing others do it/stones already placed on the headstone. It is also, psychologically, replacing the costume of placing flowers, which Judaism has not adopted and pretty much left out as “the costume of the Gentiles” (even though this would not be right for the vast majority of Jews at the 2nd half of the 20th century).

[Borden Battery]

Here is a German website with data on Jewish soldiers who were killed in service of the Fatherland. Borden Battery

Die Judischen Gefallenen

Die Judischen Gefallenen is a list of identified German Jewish servicemen who were fatalities for Germany in the Great War. Names are presented in alphabetical order along with date of birth and date of death, military unit and rank, and notice of loss. The book has two main sections: an alphabetical listing of soldiers by name a and an alphabetical listing of soldiers by their city or town or origin. [A Daniel J. Stern Website][CEF Study Group - Sept 2010]

http://www.germanjewishsoldiers.com/

[Ron Clifton]

I heard about the custom when I first visited the battlefields about 25 years ago, and was advised not to remove the stones.

Although its origins seem to be Jewish, it is observed by others as well. I would do it myself if I had family graves to visit, which fortunately I do not.

Ron

[roughdiamond]

In the same way a walker will place a stone on the Cairn at the top of a Ben to signify they'd been there?

It'd be interesting to find out if stones are removed from graves at intervals in a civilian Jewish cemetery, surely the act of placing the stone is significant, not how long it remains there.

[angelab]

Depends on the weather to some extent, I should think.

I think it's a very moving custom.

Angela