chrisharley9 Posted 14 November , 2007 Share Posted 14 November , 2007 Have spent this last few days fiddling with the Times Digital Archive & I been surprised by just how many possible non commemorations there are contained in that august journal. I suppose other national newpapers will supply other names. What have we got to do to persuade the authorites of this country that they have failed in their duty to these lads - our own work here has been amazing this last few months - however it looks like there is a lot more to be done My suggestions are 1. Should we be forming a database of possible non commemorated casualties that forum members may wish to adopt & pay the expense of the DC. 2. Pressurising the government to pay for our research as we are doing their work for them 3. Publicising the problem to a wider audience. 4. Getting sponsorship from a commerical organisation eg a newspaper or even approaching the Royal British Legion as one of their aims is remembrance One of my problems is that im happy to do the research, but when it comes to the expense of ordering DCs I have only limited resources (the wife & kids do like to eat sometimes) I would to hear your views Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 14 November , 2007 Share Posted 14 November , 2007 Chris As I mentioned on another thread, I have "an idea", which I've been talking to Terry Denham about. I hadnt wanted to mention it publically as I didnt/still dont know how practical it is. But here goes:- From amongst those of us here (or elsewhere), we form a group to do this. There might have to be some formality to it. We then crosscheck the whole of the Overseas Index on the General Register against CWGC. It will be a major undertaking in time and organisation but it is likely to identify the vast majority of "active service" deaths. We also crosscheck the "died at home" men on SDGW/ODGW. Alongside this (but really in advance of it), we would need to follow the suggestions you already make in 2 - 4 above as the cost is a clear problem for a group of volunteers. I believe that if we bring pressure to bear, through our own individual MPs, there is a good chance of having an effect on the MoD. There is an argument that I see that says this would be an internal transfer of budgets resources between the MoD and the General Register Office and therefore not "real money" (if you see what I mean). I'd like to think that, with the political pressure, the MoD might see this as a very small price to pay for some excellent publicity. In this I have in mind that the MoD's PR budget appears to be in excess of £5 million, so that the likely costs of our programme might be the proverbial drop in the ocean. I reckon if we could get this off the drawing board (and it isnt even on one yet), then we will pick up literally hundreds, if not thousands, of non-comms. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 14 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2007 John at the end of the day there is only a handfull of us doing this work on the Forum so Im with you on forming a group I like the idea of crossing checking ODGW/SDGW with the home deaths, but some I have already picked up from the Times are not on either - however at this time this is just a detail Sorry if I seem to be jumping in at the deep end but since Armistice Day I have been terribly depressed about what I have been coming across & the only way out of it for me is to do something - anyway that what is the purpose of this sub forum Im more than happy to become part of any group that wishes to carry out this work including doing the donkey work Chris & talking about sponsorship dare I say it how about one of the Battlefield Tour Companies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted 14 November , 2007 Share Posted 14 November , 2007 Count me in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 14 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2007 Neil would be very surprised if you wasnt Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 14 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2007 What about a meeting of like minded people over the Xmas/New Year period - open to suggestions as to where & when - what is our geographical dispositions Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted 14 November , 2007 Share Posted 14 November , 2007 I'm up for an informal friendly meet up... just let me know when, where etc... I'd prefer to book a Travel Lodge if it's any distance. I will come from Ashford (Kent). I'm very interested to learn more about the Times Archives Chris, can you trace potential non com men from a particular area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 14 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2007 Neil Re a meeting we will have to see what response we get The Times Digital Archive is good, but is not the answer to everything as it still has to be compared against DC registers & CWGC - however from the what Ive seen so far it is going to enable to pick up those who died from accidents etc in the UK during 1914/15 before any formal graves registration system was started particularly for those missed off ODGW/SDGW - already picked up a medical officer of the RAMC who fell to his death at Barrow in Furness on the 8th Aug 1914 Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Mackenzie Posted 15 November , 2007 Share Posted 15 November , 2007 Chris. I am happy to help. Probably an unfair question but how many non-coms are we talking about (100', 1000's, 10,000's etc)? At some stage it may be useful to do a sample of the deaths in one week/month to see if the size of the problem can be assessed. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 15 November , 2007 Share Posted 15 November , 2007 Neil M Just to give an idea of the scale of the exercise I was suggesting earlier, there are over 4600 pages of the GRO, each with around 110 names. So, around half a million names to be checked against CWGC. When Terry and I first started to talk about the practicalities of doing this, I did the check on a couple of pages. It found a couple on each page. Impossible to know if this was representative or not but, if it was, we'd be talking about finding 10,000 "guaranteed" non-comms. It's the scale of those numbers that make it impractical to even contemplate starting the project until there was some guarantee as to how the £70K for death certificates could be funded. Commercial sponsorship on that scale simply isnt going to happen, IMO. In terms of a project on the Times Archive, this may be another source of information but it would be worth cross-referencing a sample to the GRO, to make sure that there wouldnt be a duplication of effort of a later broader project. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apwright Posted 15 November , 2007 Share Posted 15 November , 2007 I'd be happy to help if I can, with my Ancestry and findmypast subscriptions. Won't be able to make the meeting though... Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 15 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 15 November , 2007 Gents I think were the Times will be useful is in find post discharge deaths Adrian I totally understand about not being able to make the meeting - abit far Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 15 November , 2007 Share Posted 15 November , 2007 Anything I can do to help in terms of websites or similar, I'm in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 15 November , 2007 Share Posted 15 November , 2007 John and I are quite a way down the road in terms of how to sift for missing names and what would be useful now is a list members prepared to do the donkey work - comparing the GRO list with CWGC. Don't be under any illusions. This is a tough task and anybody with bad eyesight or little spare time should not apply. The GRO list often has very poor reproduction. Do not get carried away with the numbers game. Nobody knows how many missing names exist. All we do know is that there will be a substantial number - enough to make the exercise worthwhile. Out of the first six pages I undertook as a trial, I found about twelve 'missing' names. However most turned out to be in the CWGC list under a slightly different spelling or, quite frequently, as a double barrelled name. Only one of those names turned out to be a genuine non-com and he has now been accepted. However, as John said, it will vary. The funding issue is a real problem but I am pursuing one possible road to getting assistance. More later. For now, the list of volunteers is needed. Access to the GRO disks would be useful (About £25) or an Ancestry subscription. That would mean we did not have to send copies of pages to volunteers. To avoid confusion, this exercise initially is ONLY to compare the GRO Overseas list with CWGC. SDGW can then be compared for 'Home' army deaths but it is very incomplete in these and so still will not be conclusive. One task at a time to avoid duplication and dilution of effort. Post-discharge deaths are a totally different ball game and should be handled seperately. If you wish to join in post your name here. Some already have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison Arnold Posted 15 November , 2007 Share Posted 15 November , 2007 Happy to help. Cheers Ali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 15 November , 2007 Share Posted 15 November , 2007 Forgot to say... Could volunteers please state if they have the GRO disks or access to Ancestry. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 15 November , 2007 Share Posted 15 November , 2007 Count me in. I'm an "Ancestry" man. I've just finished transcribing the population of Prescot from the 1901 census, some 7900 souls, so I'm looking for something to do with my spare time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison Arnold Posted 15 November , 2007 Share Posted 15 November , 2007 Sorry Terry. I have an Ancestry subscription and it won't get used much. Plenty of spare time as well. Ali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem Posted 15 November , 2007 Share Posted 15 November , 2007 I am able to help and have the GRO cds. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted 15 November , 2007 Share Posted 15 November , 2007 Are we talking about the - First World War GRO (Army, Army Officer and Navy War Deaths) Disks X3 marketed by S&N? Costing £20-30. Part of the Overseas Births, Marriages and Deaths series? If so then both myself and Chris have copies. If we are talking about an entirely different set of G.R.O disks, perhaps someone could post the details on this thread so that volunteers can procure their own copy. I will financially help anyone unable to afford the things... Count me in as a volunteer, I'm busy with my own cases but have the time to do more work. I will be a "grunt" just interested in providing "extra boots on the ground". Has anyone spoken to John Morecombe who needs to be bought on board at least as a consultant. He has no peers in this specialist work. I think we need to meet up and discuss the project face to face before work commences. Why not stick a pin in the middle of the two furthest volunteers (on a map not the volunteers!) and find a suitable venue close by? Birmingham seems a good idea in terms of England. I have 3 spare seats in my car for any Kent/E Sussex pick-up's? Nice to see finally the real extent of the problem is being taken seriously. Now is the hard bit - to convince the authorities with the money to cough up and provide logistical support. Wouldn't it be nice if the GRO agreed to waive all the D.C fees! What a patriotic action that would be eh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 15 November , 2007 Share Posted 15 November , 2007 Neil Yes - it's the disks marketed by S & N Genealogy Supplies (www.GenealogySupplies.com) John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted 15 November , 2007 Share Posted 15 November , 2007 Thanks for that John. In that case I'm A OKAY! I'd love to be able to put a face to a familiar name... The others could keep us apart! ha ha.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 15 November , 2007 Share Posted 15 November , 2007 Right First step. John Hartley as Volunteer Co-ordinator will collect the volunteers' names and their email addresses etc. We will give that a few days to build up then we will distribute the next steps to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted 15 November , 2007 Share Posted 15 November , 2007 clarkneil(at)hotmail(dot)co(dot)uk THAT'S SECRET SO DON'T RELEASE IT TO THIRD PARTIES!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 15 November , 2007 Share Posted 15 November , 2007 Cor blimey. One opens one's gob and one gets promoted to Volunteer Co-ordinator. Tomorrow - the world. On a serious note, pals, please keep posting your interest on this thread. I will contact you in a few days, to confirm email addresses, possession of Ancestry or not, etc. If you have currently blocked your PM or email contact via the Fourm, would you please unblock your PM just for long enough to send me with your emal address. We can then start what we might describe as a trial run to see how it works in practice for everyone. This will also give us the benefit of a fairly large sample that will provide some better evidence of how many non-comms we might be talking about (and thereby have a basis to talk funding with interested parties). I sense this is all going to be very worthwhile. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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