Military Foot Police (Regiment)

[Provost]

On 12/04/2019 at 22:57, vikki m said:

Hi, Can any of you help me please, I am researching John Charles Braxton, who when he married on 17th August 1917 as the Parish Church in the Gorbals, Glasgow. listed his occupation as Private Military Foot Police, he appears to have been in Scotland with this wife until approx. 1926 then in 1930 he is in Woolwich with a new wife and family.  But I am interested in his career as he is shown as Soldier all his life, he came from a Military family and was born in Woolwich and we could never work out how come he married a Scottish lass, so any clues would be welcome.

Vikki 

Hi Vikki,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Private 19723 J.C. Braxton transferred from the Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) 4th Battalion into the Military Foot Police on 11th January 1917 when he was given a new Army Number - P6002. I have his place of birth as Lasswade in Midlothian (although I can't find the reference where I got this information from) - so that (and him serving in a Scottish Regiment) could account for the Glasgow wedding.

 

Any additional info you have on him would be helpful.

 

Cheers,

 

Richard

[Guest]

Hi Provost, I am tracing my grandfather’s life and although I have a fair idea of his story I’m struggling with odd army pieces and the date he joined the MFP that you might throw some light on. William Henry Butcher was born 1 June 1889 in Wiltshire and at nearly 16 he ran away from home and joined the 1st Wiltshires on 8 March 1904 by lying about his age. His number was 6805 and a picture of him in what appears dress uniform plus pith helmet and one stripe and crossed riffles above it on the lower arm of the sleeve (lance corporal and shooting proficiency?). After a 7-year tour in India and S Africa he leaves the Army  March 1911 and joins the police force in Pontypridd. This is odd as there were no family connections to Wales but maybe army transport ships came into Cardiff or Barry as standard? When war is announced he joins his old regiment early August 1914 and keeps his old number, is that normal? Then on his medal card for his 3 medals he is listed as a PTE but with A/Cpl written above so he didn't return with his old ran, again seemed odd. His medal card also has him in the MFP as Acting Serjeant with a new number of P8722 so I assume this is near the end of the war. Although I’m amazed he made it through. With no service records I have read the 1st Wiltshire’s history of actions during WW I. The War Diary is chilling especially up to the end of 1914. As a captain notes in the diary in November 14, “after 3 months since mobilisation we have lost 1000 men and officers equivalent to a battalion”. Grandad must have had compassionate leave at this point as he returned to Wales at the end of November 1914 to marry his girlfriend but how he coped with that after Ypres, I don't know! Back to the MFP, with number P8722, and based on your previous response that P6002 was January 1917, I assume his transfer was near the end of the war. I have tried to read the Action section on the medal card but that is impossible to decipher, with numbers and slashes etc. Sorry it is so long winded but the background may help with the answer.

[Provost]

Good afternoon,

 

Thanks for this. I can tell you that from the Corps Order Book, he transferred into the Military Foot Police with effect from 22nd March 1917, and was posted to Southern Command - you can judge just how many men were being transferred into the Military Police by looking at the Corps Numbers - No P6002 in January 1917, and P8722 by March - over 2700 men transferred in three months (this is without those men who were lent or attached to the MMP & MFP before being returned to their units for whatever reason). His civilian police connection is especially interesting, as I am attempting to trace civilian police officers serving with the Corps during the War, and he is one more to add to my list. The fact that he kept his original number is something I can't comment on for the Wiltshires. Within the CMP, Reservists recalled to the Colours did keep their original Number (although since the MMP and MFP had their own 3 and 4 digit numbers, there was the possibility of confusion - hence the adoption of the P prefix in August 1914).

 

The alteration in rank stems from the fact that virtually all MPs were given Acting (either paid or unpaid) Lance Corporal rank when they joined. Some rose through the ranks as paid Corporals or Sergeants, most help the unpaid Acting rank.

 

If you have any additional info on him (what he did after the War), please DM me.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

 

Richard

Edited 4 November , 2019 by Provost

[Guest]

Hi, this helps a lot, It is amazing how many transferred in a short period. Yes I thought his previous police experience would have been seen as an asset. However, I don't know why he ended u  in the police force after his first tour with the Wiltshires. However,  I'm chasing his police service currently ie trying to understand his civy police history before WW I and what he did after the war. I know he was not in the police by 1939 but that is a gap of 20 years ie 1919-1939 where lots could have happened and there is no family to ask. Thanks again Paul

[Susiemac]

Hi

Another MFP query.  Can anyone help me trace my husbands grandfather please?  He was James McGlade DOB 25/06/1890 at Stockton.  On his marriage certificate in 1916 it says he was a Lance Corporal Military foot police.  He was gassed during the war and was in a hospital in Salcombe in 1916.  I think he might have been in other regiments (maybe Durham).  This could be him in the Pensions records Service Number:    197074, Corps, Regiment or Unit:    Labour.  But I am not sure.

Thank you.

[Coldstreamer]

try here

 

http://www.corpsofmilitarypolice.org/

[Coldstreamer]

the chap you found has no mention of Military Police on his medal card  - as this chap was in theatre in 1915 Id expect to see MFP mentioned as you say he was with them in 1916 

 

how do you know he was gassed ? 

Edited 13 January , 2020 by Coldstreamer

[Susiemac]

Because James McGlade's son told his children (including my husband) that James was gassed in WW1.  Our James McGlade was "incapacitated" on the 1939 census, so I think it may of been what happened in the war.  He was also in Sharpitor according to his marriage in 1916 when it says he was in MFP , Sharpitor was a hospital for soldiers.  So I am assuming he may have been gassed prior to admittance.

 

I think the James McGlade I found on ancestry may be someone else.

[RaySearching]

Was James McGlade's

wife Elizabeth A McGlade ?

 

Ray

 

[Susiemac]

3 minutes ago, RaySearching said:

Was James McGlade's

wife Elizabeth A McGlade ?

 

Ray

 

Yes that's right she was Elizabeth Ann Radford before they married.  She lived in Devon.

[RaySearching]

1 hour ago, Susiemac said:

Can anyone help me trace my husbands grandfather please?  He was James McGlade DOB 25/06/1890 at Stockton. 

 

If this is the James McGlade on the 1939 register listed as "incapacitated" 

 

Then the dates of birth don't correspond  ?

[Susiemac]

1 minute ago, RaySearching said:

 

If this is the James McGlade on the 1939 register listed as "incapacitated" 

 

Then the dates of birth don't correspond  ?

Yes we noticed that, but the address is exactly right as the grandchildren recall visiting it.  We know Elizabeth's maiden name is Radford.  Which ties in to the marriage.   His birth certificate has 25/6/1890 and has his correct parents (we know because he is buried with one of them).  So we think the date on the 1939 is wrong.  It's why I am trying to unlock it another way, i.e. via military records.

[RaySearching]

Another question did James reside at 26 Nixon Street or Hardman Street Middlesbrough

after the war

 

Ray

[Susiemac]

7 minutes ago, RaySearching said:

Another question did James reside at 26 Nixon Street or Hardman Street Middlesbrough

after the war

 

Ray

26 Hardman street is on his son Robert's birth certificate in 1924.

Edited 13 January , 2020 by Susiemac

[RaySearching]

Your husbands grandfather

as you suspected was Pte 197074 Labour corps previously Durham Light Infantry

He has a Western front  pension document

Which says he was discharged from service on the 28/6/1918  

with the disabilities chronic bronchitis / asthma  and pulmonary TB   aggravated by his military service

date of birth shown as 1890

 

addresses given as 26 Nixon Street /26 Hardman street Middlesbrough

 

he was awarded the Silver war badge no B/162317

 

hope this helps 

Ray

[Susiemac]

1 minute ago, RaySearching said:

Your husbands grandfather

as you suspected was Pte 197074 Labour corps previously Durham Light Infantry

He has a Western front  pension document

Which says he was discharged from service on the 28/6/1918  

with the disabilities chronic bronchitis / asthma  and pulmonary TB   aggravated by his military service

date of birth shown as 1890

 

addresses given as 26 Nixon Street /26 Hardman street Middlesbrough

 

he was awarded the Silver war badge no B/162317

 

hope this helps 

Ray

Hi Ray

I am so pleased.  Its been something we have been trying to find for years!   Thank you.

[RaySearching]

The only anomaly I can see

is that the pension document gives his date of discharge as 28/6/1918  

his medal index card and silver war badge records give his date of discharge as 5/2/1919 (enlisted 14/9/1914)

 

Ray

[travers61]

Transcription errors could creep into the 1939 register, as what we see online now is a compilation of the forms completed by the householders on the night of 29th September 1939, entered in by a clerk to the larger register.

 

It is not my intention to cause offence, but It may or may not be significant that the dob shown on the register gives him a declared age of 50 years 2 months old, but according to his birth cert & military papers he was actually 49 years and 3 months. Conscription shouldn't have been an issue as he was incapacitated & the max age at the start of WW2 for military conscription was up to 41 years, but I'm not sure what age limit applied to being directed to war work. His being over 50 yrs old may have affected wether family members who cared for him were directed to war work.

 

 

 

[RaySearching]

To summarize

James enlisted into the 2nd battalion of the Durham Light Infantry (allocated the service number 14505) on the 14/9/1914 

he entered the theater of war with the DLI on the 10/11/1915  at some point in his service, as not physically fit for front line service  

he was transferred to the Labour Corps  and demobilised on the 5th February 1919

awarded the 14-15 star British war medal and Victory medal

 

 

Ray

[Susiemac]

9 hours ago, travers61 said:

 

 

46 minutes ago, RaySearching said:

To summarize

James enlisted into the 2nd battalion of the Durham Light Infantry (allocated the service number 14505) on the 14/9/1914 

he entered the theater of war with the DLI on the 10/11/1915  at some point in his service, as not physically fit for front line service  

he was transferred to the Labour Corps  and demobilised on the 5th February 1919

awarded the 14-15 star British war medal and Victory medal

 

 

Ray

Thank you for your help.  Looking at find my past the records are part of WO 363 (Burnt Documents), so that's probably why we haven't tracked down a service history.  I will try find war diaries.

 

Just to add to the story, his brother Frank (Francis) was killed on 1/7/1916 and is buried in France.  His son Robert went on to fight in WW2. 

 

James died in 1942 from a condition relating to his lungs, so probably due to whatever happened in the war.  I think perhaps the dob in 1939 was wrong, for whatever reason. 

Edited 14 January , 2020 by Susiemac

[Provost]

I only have one McGlade on my list (Edward - P159). That is not to say he he wasn't attached to the MFP rather than transferred into it - a great many men were "lent" to the Corps during the War. As the Corps Order Books for 1915 and the first part of 1916 are lost, it is impossible to say how long he was attached. If you able to scan the marriage document stating his MFP status, that would be great.

 

Cheers,

 

Richard 

[RaySearching]

Hi Sue

 

Regarding Francis McGlade 

you may already have this his service history

 

from my notes

McGLADE FRANCIS

Private FRANCIS McGLADE

24817 26th Bn (Tyneside Irish) Northumberland Fusiliers   (previously Pte 3/12126 D.L.I)

Francis initially enlisted in Middlesbrough on the 16th August 1914 whilst residing at 161 Marsh Road Middlesbrough giving his age as 29 years old and his occupation as a bricklayer’s labourer he had previously been employed as a stoker in the Royal Navy

Francis was placed in the D.L.I and allocated the service number 11837 he served for 44 days before being discharged as medically unfit

Re-enlisted or called up for service Francis served with the D.L.I before being transferred to the Northumberland Fusiliers

Francis was killed in action during the advance on the first day of the Battle of the Somme July 1st 1916

He was the husband of Bridget McGlade  (nee Moran) of 21 Prince Charles Street Middlesbrough

The couple married in Middlesbrough in 1911

The register of soldiers effects list his widow Bridget as the sole legatee of his effects

The claimant of a dependents pension is listed as Bridget McGlade (widow) born 26/12/1893 of 21 Prince Charles Street Middlesbrough,with an allowance for one child Catherine (Kate) born 4/8 1912

Born 31st Dec 1884 Stockton on Tees enlisted Middlesbrough

THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

 

Note

 Francis is commemorated on Middlesbrough was memorial as T. McGlade I assume a transcription error was made when the panels were manufactured

 

Francis R.N service document can be found on Ancestry

 

Do you have a photo of Francis you can share ?

 

regards Ray

Edited 14 January , 2020 by RaySearching