SiegeGunner Posted 7 December , 2008 Share Posted 7 December , 2008 I retract what I said earlier about Barry's agenda being of the modern day. It has just occurred to me that what he is actually trying to do is revisit the opprobrium that was vented on Lenny Bruce in the 1950s and 60s. Objecting to the mere citation of Isaac Bogard's nickname is as ridiculous as editing your own heritage to say that you used to play "Cowboys and Native Americans". As Rob sagely says, "revenons à nos moutons" ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian grant Posted 7 December , 2008 Share Posted 7 December , 2008 Barry if you wish to discuss history - people or events, it's impossible to so unless you do so in the context of the times, to deny the usage of these words then by replacing them with what is percieved to be more politically correct terms, is to deny history itself, generations to come will never know the truth of what occured in times past. I have a saying regarding family history research, during which i've found one or two shocking revelations, " There is no good , there is no bad, there is only the truth. History is about the research of times past which must be retold accuratley as it was written, spoken, and happened, to deny these terms were used then in the context of discussion of history would in time provide our children with a totaly inacurate perspective of history, and i would ask what would be the point ? - of this forum, of history at school, of TV programmes, if the truth is not told, it becomes pointless. In fact i can tell you ( as if you were not already aware ) that many of the terms you you site as racist were in fact not then, and have only become so in modern times. The words that you speak of as being racist in my opinion are only so - even today - when they are used by racist people in a racist context. If people like yourself had their way coming generations will have lost many of the lessons of history, the truth having been brushed under the carpet, and in that respect Barry i thnk you're closer to Pol Pot than Martin Luther King, in the context of our discussions using terms like ' Darkie the Coon ' or the use of the word Kaffir when used in reporting the wording of an obituary in an 89 year old paper describing a conflict which took place 161 years ago - i wonder whose side Martin Luther Kings opinions would lie with. This is the last time i'll reply to any of your postings Barry, i'm now convinced that your only purpose is to stir up contraversy or drag threads off topic, and i seem to continually fall into your trap which won't happen again i promise. Regards Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 7 December , 2008 Share Posted 7 December , 2008 Barry's posts on this thread have evinced no interest whatever in the story of Isaac Bogard himself. His nickname is unlikely to arise again, other than perhaps in reference to how he came to acquire it. I think the time has come to repeat the dictum: "Please do not feed the troll". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Clay Posted 7 December , 2008 Share Posted 7 December , 2008 Agreed, Mick. Barry does seem not to appreciate that a forum dedicated to a historical period must of necessity deal with historical facts - such as the fact that Mr Bogard was also known as 'Darkie the Coon'. If Barry is uncomfortable with the discussion of historical facts, sometimes unpleasant ones, then perhaps a forum such as this one is not the place for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 7 December , 2008 Share Posted 7 December , 2008 .................. His nickname is unlikely to arise again, other than perhaps in reference to how he came to acquire it.......................... I seem to remember a Jewish person being mentioned in the Jack the Ripper case. If my memory serves me well, this man was also known as Darky or the darky. It would appear to have implied a swarthy complexion. Isaac and his fellow Jews would have been accustomed to hearing many epithets directed at them. Some as bad as darky and many even worse. These names were not terms of endearment but they were used and to pretend otherwise smacks of whitewash. ( Am I allowed to say that?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 7 December , 2008 Share Posted 7 December , 2008 Mick Have a look at Bishopsgate.org as mentioned by the original poster last year. Great story about gang rivalry in the East End - which seems to end with Ikey getting glassed in a pub and the gang having to ask for police protection. They had to grass up the offenders to get the protection and this basically seems to have ended Ikey's career. Well, it would, wouldnt it? Seeing as Ikey trotted round wearing a large sombrero and affecting an American accent, I rather suspect that he wasnt going to be the sort of bloke who would have given much of a monkey's about the nickname or the police's nickname for his crew. And, in perhaps a vain attempt to return this thread to something about the War, do we know anything about his MM award? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donna_bogard@hotmail.co.uk Posted 1 February , 2009 Share Posted 1 February , 2009 hi dave no this is an old thread ,issac bogard was muy mums uncle ,got photo at home 3 brothers 2 killed think other one is darky Hi you said that Isaac Bogard was your mums uncle, who was your mum? Uncle Darky was my Great Uncle my ad is Leslie Bogard and my Grandad was Manny Bogard. Awaiting your reply Bogie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leefer Posted 1 February , 2009 Share Posted 1 February , 2009 This is a brilliant thread...what a character and the record shows a brave man. In relation to the PC of the thread i have just finished reading the WW1 book Somme Mud and Nullah used plenty of very un PC comments in his diary...it was the times when words wasnt considered as offensive as they are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volleysight Posted 2 February , 2009 Share Posted 2 February , 2009 it was the times when words wasnt considered as offensive as they are now. Since they are offensive now. Now is the time to stop using them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 2 February , 2009 Share Posted 2 February , 2009 Pals, A number of inflammatory comments have already been erased from this thread, hence its sightly disjointed appearance. Please confine comments to posting information on Isaac Bogard. We wish to extend our knowledge of the MAN, not his nickname. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ukbill Posted 2 February , 2009 Share Posted 2 February , 2009 Hi you said that Isaac Bogard was your mums uncle, who was your mum? Uncle Darky was my Great Uncle my ad is Leslie Bogard and my Grandad was Manny Bogard. Awaiting your reply Bogie Hi not sure which 1 u r but u can only be either leslie,mark or shirley lol this is ya cousin billy barry is also looking for some details on uncle darkie he is also a cousin looks like we are popping up everywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 5 February , 2009 Share Posted 5 February , 2009 Hi not sure which 1 u r but u can only be either leslie,mark or shirley lol this is ya cousin billy barry is also looking for some details on uncle darkie he is also a cousin looks like we are popping up everywhere hi there it seems there are a few of us bogards on here who havent met each other would you all pm me so we can get in touch please pam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison Arnold Posted 5 February , 2009 Share Posted 5 February , 2009 Hi not sure which 1 u r but u can only be either leslie,mark or shirley lol this is ya cousin billy Hi, Can you not write in text speak please as a lot of us "oldies" don't understand it. Thanks Ali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbogard@hotmail.co.uk Posted 5 February , 2009 Share Posted 5 February , 2009 Mick Have a look at Bishopsgate.org as mentioned by the original poster last year. Great story about gang rivalry in the East End - which seems to end with Ikey getting glassed in a pub and the gang having to ask for police protection. They had to grass up the offenders to get the protection and this basically seems to have ended Ikey's career. Well, it would, wouldnt it? Seeing as Ikey trotted round wearing a large sombrero and affecting an American accent, I rather suspect that he wasnt going to be the sort of bloke who would have given much of a monkey's about the nickname or the police's nickname for his crew. And, in perhaps a vain attempt to return this thread to something about the War, do we know anything about his MM award? John Hi John, Darky the Coon was my great Uncle I have spoken to my Dad who is Leslie Bogard the Son of Manny Bogard (Emmanuel) Darky's brother. Manny was married to Grace Lillian. My Dad told me that Darky got his MM for going into no-mans-land and rescuing a wounded officer. This was told to him by his mother Grace Lillian (my Nan). Hope this is of some help. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbogard@hotmail.co.uk Posted 5 February , 2009 Share Posted 5 February , 2009 hi there it seems there are a few of us bogards on here who havent met each other would you all pm me so we can get in touch please pam hi pam my name is mark im married to donna my dad is leslie who is the son of manny bogard (brother of darky)how are you related to uncle darky?lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 6 February , 2009 Share Posted 6 February , 2009 hi pam my name is mark im married to donna my dad is leslie who is the son of manny bogard (brother of darky)how are you related to uncle darky?lol hi mark my husbands grand father john was ickeys brother also veclee on here is related to my family but theres a couple on here who seem to be related also, so im trying to track them down hopefully we can collate some info on isaac that way as we have all got info on him. pam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 6 February , 2009 Share Posted 6 February , 2009 Pam If the family does manage to collate as much of a full story as possible, I think many folk would be fascinated to read it. He was, clearly, a "character" and we don't see to many of them these days. Apart from the obvious local history outlets, I know a respected Great War website which, I suspect, would be delighted to tell the story as it has for a couple of my ancestors. Hellfire Corner John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbogard@hotmail.co.uk Posted 6 February , 2009 Share Posted 6 February , 2009 hi mark my husbands grand father john was ickeys brother also veclee on here is related to my family but theres a couple on here who seem to be related also, so im trying to track them down hopefully we can collate some info on isaac that way as we have all got info on him. pam hi pam who is/was your husbands dad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 6 February , 2009 Share Posted 6 February , 2009 hi pam who is/was your husbands dad? charles henry i think bogard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veklee Posted 3 April , 2009 Share Posted 3 April , 2009 just a quick one Isaac Bogard, M.M., A.R.P. Stretcher Party commendation ww2 london gazette ( sorry if off subject but refers to the man ) barry so how many relations do we have here now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsimonsmith Posted 13 September , 2010 Share Posted 13 September , 2010 Hello all, We are currently producing a documentary on the history of The Old Nichol and the Boundary Estate for BBC2. We would be thrilled to talk to any relatives of Isaac Bogard, and consult them on the popular theories and stories that surround this man. Much has been written on him, but little with the input from his family. If you are related to Isaac Bogard, please get in contact by calling Century Films on 0 2 0 7 3 7 8 6 1 0 6, or emailing simon.smith@centuryfilmsltd.com. Please note the date of this post, as I notice some of the information on here is seven or eight years old. This is being posted in September of 2010. By 2012 this programme will have been finished and transmitted on BBC2. Kind regards, Simon Smith Century Films Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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