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St Margaret's School, Liverpool [SMA]


daggers
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This morning I attended a half-hour Service of Remembrance held by St Margaret's Boys School in Aigburth, Liverpool. It included prayers, Last Post, Silence and Reveille, placing of a poppy wreath, readings from the Bible and poems, and a recital of the names of old boys of the school whose lives were given in WW2, by name, their years at the school and their arm of Service. Many had left a year or two before the outbreak of war. It was reverently carried out, mostly by the boys themselves and was very moving.

Afterwards I asked about names of WW1 victims and was told that, despite careful research, any Roll of Honour or list had not survived a move in the 1960s from the original site at Anfield to the present buildings at Aigburth.

This is posted in the hope, perhaps forlorn, that someone might be able to point to a list. The school has been known locally, at both sites, as SMA, and there is a strong old boy network, run by the same senior member of staff who arranged today's ceremony.

Any information will be passed on to the school.

Daggers

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Colin

No, though SMA hoped it was so and I had the sad task of finding it was not. The VC went to the 'other' St Margaret's, in the Princes Road area of Toxteth.

Daggers

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Sorry Daggers,

It just rang a bell as I have a great deal on David Jones & thought it might be him. I sympathise with the school, my old school lost not only records but all the Silver when they moved, alas. Is there no chance the other SMA might have inherited the records of the other SMA, stranger things have happened in the Ediucation system over the years.

No chance the "Kings museum" might have such records?

Regards.

Colin

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Colin

Thanks for the thoughts. I will check with the school, but think they have done all they can locally. Do you know about the two locally-published booklets on Liverpool-related VCs, including David Jones and of course Noel Chavasse? One came out last year, the second this year. I have lent my volumes out this morning so cannot quote price, but about £5 or £7 each.

Daggers

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Hi Daggers,

No I havn't heard of the booklets but I do have a great deal on David Jones VC & as for Noel Chavasse VC & bar, I think he is so well known that the contents of the booklet might be surplus.

Would be interesting to compare the booklet on David Jones VC with my data, one thing always puzzled me was the relationship if any between his wife & Father Doyle?

Cheers for now .

Colin

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No I havn't heard of the booklets but I do have a great deal on David Jones VC & as for Noel Chavasse VC & bar, I think he is so well known that the contents of the booklet might be surplus.

Colin,

Noel Chavasse: I quite understand what you mean by 'surplus' but it is fair to point out that this is a booklet produced by Ann Clayton, Chavasse's biographer, with others and is being sold directly in aid of the charity that is raising funds for a memorial to all Liverpool VC's.

The memorial takes the form a three-man statue (one and a quarter life-size) showing Chavasse, a casualty and a Liverpool Scottish stretcher bearer. The individual VCs will be commemorated by individual plaques around the substantial plinth. Apart from the fact that this booklet (now in its second edition) brings a fuller story of Noel Chavasse (and other VC winners) to a wider audience than might buy his biography, I think it is less than surplus if it raises money for this cause.

I do appreciate that you were saying, I think, that a great deal has been written about Chavasse but if it brings the story to a wider audience, particularly in Liverpool, I think it serves a fine purpose. Well known, maybe, amongst folk such as ourselves on the GWF but judging by the 120 people of a very mixed cross-section who packed into a modest Liverpool venue to hear a Chavasse presentation last Wednesday, there is some education to be done, and not just on account of the instances of Noel Chavasse and David Jones

Ian

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Apreciate your point Ian, didn't realise the purpose of the booklet , as you know so many books etc. are just variants of previous one's .

However in view of your post I will order the booklets (both) tomorrow. Thanks for the enlightenment.

Regards,

Colin :mellow:

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Colin,

They will be very pleased to take your money. Bill Sergeant and his committee who are running the appeal are working fantastically hard.

I should take the chance to apologise to what I described as a 'modest' venue (I am not sure why I chose the word at midnight last night) before Liverpool Cricket Club spot this and send the boys round, bats in hand. A member there (Chris Jones) made an excellent job of hosting the event and was rewarded with a first-class turnout in their fine clubhouse. I was surprised by the response and the enthusiasm. There was obvious pride amongst members in their war memorial that includes the names of two VCs, Chavasse and Eric Stuart Dougall together with interest from their guests. I think I meant 'slightly surprising (to me) venue' rather than 'modest'. They have two rooms named after the VCs and were obviously keen to learn more about Chavasse in the light of the statue appeal.

Meanwhile, back at the topic, I will ask my friend who has compiled (and continues to add to) the Merseyside contribution to the National Inventory of War Memorials about St Margaret's School, Aigburth. However, I think I have had a conversation with him before about this which reached a similar conclusion to that outlined by Daggers. Certainly, memorials have been unearthed from the depths of the Liverpool City Education Dept before (doubtless it is now called Community Learning - actually Children's Services - I've just looked) but I think that avenue will have been explored. Sadly, Liverpool has had recent problems in looking after the fine architecture of its own (but sold on) education offices, the architectural detail of which was 'modified' by developers, resulting, I gather, in subsequent demolition. I presently have an interest in three Merseyside memorials for which homes are sought and which and which must be regarded by someone as 'missing'.

Ian

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Myrtle

There were two St Margaret's Schools at Anfield. The senior element moved to Aigburth in the 1960s, but the junior stayed on and is still there.

I have just noticed that the vicar of St Margaret's Church in Anfield from 1920-1928 was the Revd. J.O. Coop, better known in this Forum as the author of the WW1 history of the 55th West Lancashire Division TF and their wartime chaplain. The church, built in 1873, was burned down in 1961 and a modern building replaced it.

Ian

Sorry to have missed the event at LCC. Their memorial was a joint effort with the Liverpool [Rugby] Football Club, who then shared the premises and perhaps have a better claim on the two VCs but I am not starting a war on this! That club is celebrating 150 years and dined well last night.

Daggers

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Daggers

The following may be of interest. The National Union of Teachers War Record has Private F.H. Wedlake King's Liverpool Regiment listed under St Margaret's N.S. Anfield. This appears to be Rifleman Fred Hector Wedlake 1753 6th Battalion King's Liverpool Regiment who died of wounds 13/03/1915 according to CWGC and SDGW.

Myrtle

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Hi Daggers,

I apologise if my comment about David Jones wife & Father Doyle may have given the wrong impression, I meant the maiden name of Mrs Jones being Doyle & was there any connection with Father Doyle?

My regrets.

Colin

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Myrtle

Thanks for that detail which I shall pass on to the school.

Colin

I had not taken your remark amiss, but know nothing of any Jones/Doyle connection. I shall have to wait for the return of my VC books to see if there is any mention.

Daggers

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Myrtle

Thanks for that detail which I shall pass on to the school.

You may also wish to tell the school that Fred's brother, Gunner Frank Albert Wedlake 58662 129th bty RFA died of wounds 21st September 1914. Both boys were born in Yeovil, Somerset. Their father George was a police constable and their mother Rhoda died in 1897 when Frank was 7 and Fred 9 years old. After his wife's death George appears to have sent his son Fred away to boarding school as the older boy appears to be a boarder at Cliffe House School in Wincanton at the time of the 1901 census. This may have been the time that Fred decided he would like to be a teacher.

Myrtle

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The published history of St Margaret's Boys' School (1976) tells me that no roll of honour or other memorial was made by the school, but "in the Church a plaque was unveiled to commemorate all who had died for the cause". I have found nothing in the city Record Office to help us.

As this was a parochial matter, and as the church was destroyed by fire in 1961, I think we have to assume that it would now be impossible to re-create a school roll of honour. In addition, I noticed that the national school leaving age was raised to 14 in 1918. Even though an Old Boys association had been formed, it would be unlikley that they could keep track of all who served in the forces.

The same history told of the master, F. Wedlake, whose name was in Myrtle's earlier post. He was a pre-war Territorial and was said to be the first teacher from Liverpool whose death was announced in the war.

Thanks to all for help.

Daggers

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Just a brief line Daggers, according to the info. I have David Jones went to Heyworth school & after the war there was a stone memorial & a bronze plate, lost at one time but recovered placed in the stock room of Everton Park CP school. A smaller stone version memorial was displayed on the wall of Everton Library , St. Domingo Road. Liverpool. Mrs Jones later married again but had no children & when the Kings /Manchesters were amalgamted, the VC was placed in the hands of Blakes Motors for whom David Jones worked. What happened later I don't know Daggers but it maybe there is a VC hanging around, don't know what Blakes eventually did with it, doubt kit they are still in business.???

Some clues?

Colin

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Colin

Unless someone beats me to it, I shall have to await the return of the book. From memory, I think Blakes did pass the VC on, but they are not in business any more, like many motor retailers, faded away.

Daggers

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I noticed going back through the posts, you mentioned the Cricket Club were celebrating two VC's , don't they know of David Jones?

Colin

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I noticed going back through the posts, you mentioned the Cricket Club were celebrating two VC's , don't they know of David Jones? Is Heyworth school connected with St. Margarets? Havn't been to Liverpool in 50 years , apart from Walton Hospital, couldn't get a "Scouse"passport for the centre.!!!!

Colin

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Daggers,

Did you find anything further on David Jones VC , his wife & the Rev. Hardy, could the latter have been related to Mrs Jones.?

Cheers.

Colin

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