wyliecoyote Posted 8 November , 2007 Share Posted 8 November , 2007 I am hoping there are Imperial German Uniform experts here on the forum. I would like to know some information regarding the field grey M1910 Vereinfachte Feldrock, specifically when these uniform jackets first made their debut? For anyone interested, but not sure what that is, it is the simplified version of the M1907/10 field grey uniform that the German army wore into the field at the beginning of the war in 1914. The most striking thing about them are the simplified barrel cuffs, designed to make it easier & quicker to manufacture than either the Swedish or Brandenburg cuffs of the M1907/10 tunics. Any help is always appreciated. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Morton Posted 8 November , 2007 Share Posted 8 November , 2007 I'm certainly no kind of German uniform expert, but my copy of Wooley's (Schiffer) book on Imperial German uniforms would appear to imply 1915. Probably someone else will be able to tell you the month, etc. All the best, Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 9 November , 2007 Share Posted 9 November , 2007 Per Kraus the "Vereinfachter Feldrock M 1915" was introduced per Preuss. Kreigsministierum Order on 3.3.1915, Bayern 12.3.15, Sachsen 16.3.15 und von Wurttemberg am 9.3.1915. Kraus uses a slightly different dating system to Feldrocks which I think is probably the most accurate--hence the M1915 usage instead of the M1910 designation. The M1907 was officially replaced for all German troops in early 1914 by the M1913 Landstrurm Feldrock. The real difference being the 1907 had white lining/upper and grey in skirts and removable belt hooks. The M1913 had the far more common Grey lining which was slightly simplified and the belt hooks were sewn into the body like the Bluse. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyliecoyote Posted 9 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2007 Great info gentlemen! Thank you both for your responses. Joe, perhaps a goofy question, but the M1913 Landsturm Feldrock, it would look identical in photos to the M1907/10 then? The only way to tell the difference would be to have a look at the lining? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 9 November , 2007 Share Posted 9 November , 2007 The easiest way to tell the M1907 from the M1913 is the lining. The top photo shows a M1907 to the 3rd Bay. FussArt. (1912). It actually started out life as an Infantry 1907 to the 19th Bay. Infantry but was transferred to the 3rd Bay Fuss Art and the cuffs expertly retailored. It was a 3rd Garniture (walking out) so survived in very good condition. The middle feldrock is a 1913 Landsturm for Infantry--came out of a costume house so the back pannel at some point was replaced. Sizing info survives but the Bekleidungsampt does not. The lower one is to 2nd Pionere Battalion and is M1913 Landsturm Feldrock dated 1915. The M1913 narrowed the cut in the waist, removed the adjusting straps, and had the belt ramps sewn in. The M1913 Landsturm configuration was adopted for all troops in Septmember 1914. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 9 November , 2007 Share Posted 9 November , 2007 The easiest exterior way of telling the difference between 1907 and 1913 is the cuff. The 1907 had a button flap the buttoned flush with the edge of the seem. The 1913 added the small loop extension. The photo shows the 1907 far greener than it actually is. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyliecoyote Posted 9 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2007 Wow Joe Sweeney This is turning out to be one fantastic thread. An excellant comparison! I sure do appreciate the education, and those are some swell tunics too. TThanks for posting them. Geo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyliecoyote Posted 10 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 10 November , 2007 Joe This is fascinating stuff for me, do you have any other photos of these feldrocks? The photo of the M1913 button flap extension, would this be located on the bottem of the cuff? Would there still be the three buttons on the top of the cuff, like a Brandenburg cuff? And on the M1913, are there buttons down the front like the M1907 feldrock? Is there still the button flaps and piping on the rear skirt? Great info and photos, thank you so much for sharing, you have really sparked my interest on this subject, Thank You! Geo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyliecoyote Posted 10 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 10 November , 2007 I started this thread initially because of another thread in the Units & Formations section titled Kronprinz Willi. I am looking to date the picture in the thread, hence the questions regarding verinfacte feldrocks. I was just looking at the photo again and what do I now find? It is of 7 men being decorated, 2 wearing M1915 vereinfacte feldrocks, and I thought the other 5 were wearing M1907/10 feldrocks, but at least 3 of those men are wearing M1913 Landsturm feldrocks! Before this thread, I didn't even know there was such an animal! OK, cuff at left is M1907, cuff at right is M1913? Do I have that right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 10 November , 2007 Share Posted 10 November , 2007 The exterior differences of Cuffs etc remained the same from 1907 to 1913. Brandenburg, Swedish, French, Saxon. As did the configuration of the piping at the rear. Only with the "Vereinfachter Feldrock M 1915" did all this get simplified. For some season I can't make out the cuffs too well in this photo on my computer. However, I did notice you posted this same photo on JPS website. The cuff on the left is 1907 the cuff on the right might just might be a second button on the 1907 cuff (although I'm not sure if a true 1907 was supposed to have a second button) (The 1913 could be buttoned tight with two buttons for siziing.) If you can see a loop its the 1913.--the photo is a bit washed out on this forum (which is fairly common and I can't figure out). However, on the photo you posted on the JPS website the man to the immediate right clearly has the loop associated with the 1913. I will post photos later. I would recommend that if you are really into studying German Great War uniforms you get both the English language and German language work by Jurgen Kraus--Go to: http://www.militaria.at/index_e.htm Although a lot of American/English collectors call this the bible IMHO it is not. It is a Coffee table book with fantastic photos. If you want detail get his German language work: "Die feldgraue Uniformierung des deutschen Heeres, 1907-1918". 2 Vol. Collecting German Uniforms is not my priority and I really heavily rely on Kraus--so if there is a mistake in Kraus I will repeat it. I think as far as accuracy or most up to date research Kraus is the way to go. Both are expensive. If I would prioritize I would go German Language first. However, the photos in the English language really compliment the German work which heavily relies on line drawings in a similar fashion to Todd's 2 vol. "American Military Equipage, 1851-1872" Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyliecoyote Posted 10 November , 2007 Author Share Posted 10 November , 2007 Joe Really great info, sorry thie photo is washed out. Here is the one you were referring to I believe, clearly shows the loop at the rear of the cuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 10 November , 2007 Share Posted 10 November , 2007 That would be a 1913 cuff. Note the second adjusting button. Joe PS I have seen a few rocks that mix features of 1913 and 1907. The mixed ones I've seen tend to be modified 1907 brought up to date via arsenal reissue--i.e. The removable belt hooks of the 1907 were replaced with sewn in belt hooks and the button loop added with a second button. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imacoy Posted 25 December , 2015 Share Posted 25 December , 2015 Picking up on this old topic but does anyone have good photographic evidence of the simplifed vereinfachte barrel cuffs that had the tab and single horn button for adjustment (i believe the tab was sewn to the inside of tne cuff and was tucked away into a slot in the lower rear seam when not in use to tighten the cuff). This adjustment feature may not have been on all vereinfacte tunics with the simplifed barrel cuffs and certainly seems to have been dropped for the M1915 Bluse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 25 December , 2015 Share Posted 25 December , 2015 Is this what you need? This is reproduced from J.Kraus, Die deutsche Armee, p. 145, where it is described as " Vereinfachter Feldrock fuer bayerische Mannschaften M.1915". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imacoy Posted 26 December , 2015 Share Posted 26 December , 2015 Trajan, thanks. That is the Bavarian simplified cuff. I am referring to the Prussian barrel cuffs (pre-1915 bluse) that have a slit in the lower rear seam and a corresponding button on side of the cuff facing the wearer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 26 December , 2015 Share Posted 26 December , 2015 Can't help you there, then - this is the only one shown in that book. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eparges Posted 26 December , 2015 Share Posted 26 December , 2015 Hi, here are some shots of my M15 Vereinfachter (KJR145 1915). Note the tab is made of different feldgrau wool, the slit in the cuff is reinforced at the ends by a threadroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imacoy Posted 26 December , 2015 Share Posted 26 December , 2015 Eparges, great photos and exactly what I was looking for, especially the third. Interesting to see how the tab is attached to the inner cuff (outer sleeve) and can be concealed between the inner and turnbacked outer cuff for stowage when not in use through the slit. That would explain period photos I have seen clearly showing the slit let into the rear seam -- but not the tab exposed -- and the corresponding adjustment button when the inner face of the cuff is visible (button usually conecealed since it is opposite the inside wrist and against the wearer's tunic when the sleeves are down). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imacoy Posted 4 January , 2016 Share Posted 4 January , 2016 Another question re: the Vereinfachte rocks of 1915. Did these have the lining, internal waist adjustment and removeable side hooks of the M1907/10, or were the M1913 Landsturm modifications, e.g., sewn in side hooks, applied to these as well by the time they were "simplified"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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