Did Chaplains have to do training ?

[nigelcave]

I think that what has been said here is undoubtedly a moving testimony of a Baptist chaplain and his work during the war. But like everything and every occupation in life, there were probably about twenty percent or so outstanding or good; about sixty percent plus who were satisfactory and the rest were not up to it (and who can blame them?). As regards chaplains, I am sure that every denomination shared to a greater or lesser extent in this rather blanket-like categorisation. Certainly I know of RC Chaplains who were sent home because they simply did not match up to the demands that were placed upon them.

[Audax]

There is an interesting chapter on 'The Catholic Chaplaincy' by Jane Leonard in 'Ireland and the First World War'; David Fitzpatrick (Ed) Dublin (1986)

Fr James MacRory of the Connaught Rangers wrote in his Diary (PRONI 1868/ 1-2) of the 'the lazy cowardly English RC chaplains' and their irreverent ways.

[nigelcave]

There is an interesting chapter on 'The Catholic Chaplaincy' by Jane Leonard in 'Ireland and the First World War'; David Fitzpatrick (Ed) Dublin (1986)

Fr James MacRory of the Connaught Rangers wrote in his Diary (PRONI 1868/ 1-2) of the 'the lazy cowardly English RC chaplains' and their irreverent ways.

Quite - and thereby hangs a tale! A not insignificant number of chaplains came tagged with deeply held Irish nationalist feelings; and a fair number were moved on after the war to less contentious countries like the States and Australia... Whilst undoubtedly the great majority were good (or excellent) men in their ministry, others just were not up to it - which of course applied to every branch and every member of the service. I wonder how I would have rated!!

[Hywyn]

Here is what Captain Dunn says regarding Rev W E Jones in TWTIK Page 556

"Our losses during the day were heavy, Griffiths, an outstanding good officer was killed, as was our Nonconformist padre. the padre should not have gone with A Company in the early morning. He was told that he would be an embarrassment to them: but he was impulsive, he insited on going, and was killed when seeking a MC to please some fool of a girl in Liverpool who had taunted him with having no decoration."

TWTIK was first published 1938 and is a 'Chronicle of Service in France.....etc...etc...founded on personal records, recollections and reflections, assembled, edited...by one of their Medical Officers'

Pte Frank Richards in his Old Soldiers Never Die*says as follows

" I found the frail Wesleyan Minister I have mentioned with this company (ie A Coy) I liked him very much although he had chastisted me several times for my language. I told him the attack would start in about five minutes and he told me that he was going over with the first wave of attacking troops, so that he could attend the wounded as soon as they were hit. I told him he was different from all the chaplains in my experience and that I admired his pluck but not his sense. It would be far better if he waited a few minutes until after the first wave had gone over: then he would be able to go forward and attend the wounded. But if he went over with the first wave then there would be every possibility he would be knocked out himself and would not be able to attend anyone. He would not take my advice and went over with the first wave, dropping dead before he had run ten paces."

Rab, would you mind if I copied your info into the info I hold re Rev Jones?

I have an interest in him inasmuch as he is commemorated on the Felinheli (Port Dinorwic) Memorial in Caernarfonshire.

Hywyn

* Page 220 of the version recently brought out by D E Langley (aka Grumpy)

[Rab]

Hywyn

I don't mind at all if you use the info on Rev Jones.

The info I copied is from N E Allison's thesis. Unfortunately when I copied & pasted this portion of the thesis the references didn't transfer. I know N E Allison relied on other scholars' work (including Ieun Elfryn Jones who tranlated articles from Welsh into English) which is documented in his thesis, which would be important to you if you intend to publish any of the info. Copies of the thesis are held at the RAChD Museum, and St Michael's College, Cardiff.

If you would like me to send you a list of relevant references, just let me know.

The W E Jones mentioned was a young Baptist Padre. He was not a Wesleyan.

Regards,

Rab

[Audax]

Out of the 63 chaplains who were listed as 'Killed in Action' 40 were Anglican, 11 Roman Catholic and 11 belonged to other denominations. The Denomination of 1 is unknown. (See Howson, Deaths among Army Chaplains 1914 - 20 JSHAR Spring 2005)

Also see 'Greater Love' by Rev David Youngson

GREATER LOVE

[Hywyn]

Thanks Rab

I cannot see at the moment that I will be printing anything as such only possibly to deposit in local archives. To cover this and if it's no great deal of work for you I would be grateful for the references via a PM.

Hywyn

[Rab]

Here's another interesting bit of info on W E Jones, courtesy of N E Allison's thesis.

"William Evans Jones was ordained at the Jerusalem Church in Caernarfon in 1917. He was ordained, unusually, straight from college, to serve as a chaplain. He served previously as a combatant soldier in the trenches before being wounded."

[BigT]

I remember our padre saying that he had to go on a grave digging course!

[Rab]

Quote

Field burial courses are quite common for Padres, especially if they're about to deploy.

[Hywyn]

Rab

Prompted by your post I have dug a bit deeper and find that William Evans Jones a Ministerial Student from Caernarfon enlisted as into the RWF on 10th Dec 1914 at Llandudno. He was allocated Pte 18758 and placed in the 16th Battalion. On the 2nd December 1915 he went with the Battalion into France but on the 11th December, whilst in action he was shot in the right hand. By 22nd December he is shown as posted to Depot. On the 4th April 1916 he was posted to 20th (Res)Bn before being discharged Para 392(Xvi) permanentlt unfit for military duty on 29/5/1916. On another page, dealing with medical boards etc it states 'man died (killed in action) 8/10/1918'. This page also refers to him as a Ministerial Student.

There are 9 more pages that I haven't gone through yet but I think that we can safely say that this is the Rev William Evan Jones. (address differs from the one on CWGC but NoK, father, David Jones is the same.)

Hywyn

[Hywyn]

I now see from the NA MIR that the aforementioned RWF number is allocated to William Evas-Jones who is also shown as a Reverend in the Army Chaplains attached to the RWF.

Hywyn