HMS Aboukir

[pjjobson]

Are there any experts on the forum who have any info on HMS Aboukir or the events surrounding her sinking, along with Hogue and Cressey?

My interest stems from the fact that a reletive of my wifes was a stoker on the Aboukir, I understand she was torpedoed around the engine room, so I assume he didn't stand much of a chance.

He certainly didn't survive the sinking.

Many thanks

[Michael]

Here's someting I wrote for the parish newsletter, as one our men died on her.

With war looming, Harry Beanland was called up from the reserve and joined HMS Aboukir on 2nd August 1914. He had previously sailed on her in 1906, and was promoted to Stoker 1st Class whilst part of the ship’s company.

Aboukir was one of the six Cressy Class armoured cruisers. Completed in April 1902, she had a displacement of 12,000 tons and her 2 triple expansion steam engines were capable of 21 knots. The class were modern when they were completed but by the outbreak of the Great War they were outdated by the German fleet.

Whilst on patrol in the Broad Fourteens on 22nd September 1914, Cruiser Force C of Cressy, Aboukir and Hogue came into the view of Otto Weddigen’s periscope in U9. He fired a torpedo at the Aboukir, which struck her port side at bulkhead 69. It soon became obvious that she was about to sink, and thinking that he’d struck a mine, Aboukir’s Captain Drummond ordered Cressy and Hogue to assist. With his 5 remaining torpedoes, Weddigen sank them both. This was a disaster for the Navy as 3 of its cruisers and 1459 men had been lost in the space of an hour and a half.

There were a number of questions raised at the enquiry into the sinkings on 6th October. The purpose of the patrol was to protect the Belgian coast and seaway from submarine action. An admiral should have been attached to the patrol on HMS Euryalus, but due to problems with his ship’s radio, he sailed home. The poor weather also caused the accompanying destroyers to return to port.

This left the 3 ships vulnerable to submarine action when the weather improved the following morning.

The blame for the incident was directed at the ships’ captains rather than the Admiralty.

It was noted that

• The senior officer (Capt Drummond) should have zigzagged when the weather moderated

• The senior officer should not have ordered the other ships to close he when didn’t know if he’d been mined or torpedoed.

• The other captains should not have stopped to attend the Aboukir’s sinking

• There were insufficient lookouts

• The watertight doors were half open

The board of enquiry also recommended that lifebelts be provided for everyone so that the survivors can be left in the water for smaller, less vulnerable craft to rescue them!

The enquiry failed to blame the Admiralty for

• Maintaining the patrol with ships that were not capable of the task.

• Allowing the Rear Admiral of the squadron to return to port without giving the senior officer clear instructions.

• Not calling up the destroyers in the morning when the weather improved.

[Clive Maier]

As your topic title acknowledges, the sinking of the Aboukir, Hogue and Cressey is the subject of Alan Coles' book Three Before Breakfast. It is in many public libraries and on AbeBooks from £14. This should provide you with comprehensive information.

[ian turner]

I knew of this stoker from HMS Aboukir.

He had rejoined the Navy at the outbreak of the war, and went down with the Aboukir, leaving behind a wife and several children. People of his village (Burham, Kent) were surprised that he did not survive, since he was known as a good swimmer!

Name: WOOLLEY, WILLIAM ALFRED

Initials: W A

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Stoker 1st Class

Regiment/Service: Royal Navy

Unit Text: (RFR/CH/B/1169). H.M.S. "Aboukir."

Age: 38

Date of Death: 22/09/1914

Service No: 279527

Additional information: Son of Thomas and Ellen Woolley, of Burham; husband of Emma Agnes Woolley, of Bell Lane, Burham, Rochester, Kent.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: 6.

Memorial: CHATHAM NAVAL MEMORIAL

++

Ian

[eviltaxman]

No help really, but my Great Grandfather was Chief Stoker on the Aboukir 1905-06 (see my sig - Alfred Coole)

Les

[Jonathan Saunders]

An interetsing aside is that Weddigen was killed when commanding U29. U29 was the only vessel to be destroyed by HMS Dreadnought - the ship that changed the face of battleships as a big gun platform. U29 was rammed!

Regards,

Jon S

[James A Pratt III]

"Warship 2004" has a column saying the wrecks have been located ect. "Warship 2005" has an artical that deals with pumping that point out that Sir William White (and others) the DNC responsible for the design of most of the pre-Dreadnought era Battleships and Cruisers of the RN thought that centerline bulkheads were a good idea. Unfortunely, when these ships were hit by torpedos or mines they tended to capsize. Just thought you would like to know.

[Northern Soul]

"Warship 2004" has a column saying the wrecks have been located ect. "Warship 2005" has an artical that deals with pumping that point out that Sir William White (and others) the DNC responsible for the design of most of the pre-Dreadnought era Battleships and Cruisers of the RN thought that centerline bulkheads were a good idea. Unfortunely, when these ships were hit by torpedos or mines they tended to capsize. Just thought you would like to know.

Indeed they have most definitely been located, and to-day, are popular diving marks as they are not very deep.

From my notes:

The three cruisers lie in about 80 feet of water, some 22 miles out from Scheveningen. The first to be torpedoed, H.M.S. Aboukir, stayed afloat for 25 minutes before capsizing and lay for some time with her keel above water. Her position today is 52° 15.30' N: 03° 41.34' E. H.M.S. Hogue was hit by torpedoes from both of U9's bow tubes when she stopped to pick up survivors. The wreck lies at 52° 15.22' N: 03° 41.48' E, some 150 yards from H.M.S. Aboukir. H.M.S. Cressy was the last to go. The wreck is at 52° 15.20' N; 03° 40.82' E, about 800 yards from the others.

All three cruisers are almost upside-down, with severe damage to their bottoms. Though some of this can be put down to the torpedoes, there was heavy salvage in the 1950's, with all the sterns blown off in recovering the propellers and shafts. Midship sections have been opened with explosives to reach the condensers and in the bows the torpedo tubes have been blown out. Showing are the powder and shell magazines and the bases of the engines and boilers. The bottoms of the lower 6in gun casemates on the port side of H.M.S. Cressy can be seen (the photo shows a 6" gun on H.M.S. Cressy)..

Best wishes.

Andy.

[Northern Soul]

There is a complete list of Aboukir casualties here:

Aboukir casualties

Best wishes.

Andy.

[per ardua per mare per terram]

U29 was rammed!

Even though the incongruity of a ram bow was pointed out at the Dreadnought design stage, yet it was retained and all battleships up to and including the Queen Elizabeth’s all retained a ram bow. 15 inch guns and they still thought the ships needed the back up of a ram! Nelson and Rodney were the first to be built without.

Edited 12 June , 2009 by per ardua per mare per terram

[John Garnett]

If I remember rightly there was some suggestion that a number of surviving ratings from the three ships hid themselves away to avoid being transferred to HMS Lowestoft from a trawler.

The enquiry concluded that "The impression left on the Court is that these survivors were in no hurry to leave the comfort and warmth of the trawler, but not that they deliberately hid themselves."

I think I have photocopies of the correspondence relating to this somewhere.

John

[stan johnson]

Just a little aside about Leutnant Otto Weddigen. In 1935 Admiral Donitz began with his first new U-Boat flotilla. It was called the "Weddigen" flotilla. This marked the re-birth of the German U-Boat and the Packs used in the Second World War

[Guest yizhivika]

I knew of this stoker from HMS Aboukir.

He had rejoined the Navy at the outbreak of the war, and went down with the Aboukir, leaving behind a wife and several children. People of his village (Burham, Kent) were surprised that he did not survive, since he was known as a good swimmer!

Name: WOOLLEY, WILLIAM ALFRED

Initials: W A

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Stoker 1st Class

Regiment/Service: Royal Navy

Unit Text: (RFR/CH/B/1169). H.M.S. "Aboukir."

Age: 38

Date of Death: 22/09/1914

Service No: 279527

Additional information: Son of Thomas and Ellen Woolley, of Burham; husband of Emma Agnes Woolley, of Bell Lane, Burham, Rochester, Kent.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: 6.

Memorial: CHATHAM NAVAL MEMORIAL

++

Ian

Yes, the William Alfred Woolley above is my great-grandfather: he had a son called Albert Woolley, who is my maternal grandfather, and who also died at sea, during the Second World War, in the D-Day operations of June 1944. Albert was an Able Seaman, and died on the 8th June 1944, aboard HMS Lawford, which was struck by a guided missile in the English Channel.

[Neil Clark]

I knew of this stoker from HMS Aboukir.

He had rejoined the Navy at the outbreak of the war, and went down with the Aboukir, leaving behind a wife and several children. People of his village (Burham, Kent) were surprised that he did not survive, since he was known as a good swimmer!

Name: WOOLLEY, WILLIAM ALFRED

Initials: W A

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Stoker 1st Class

Regiment/Service: Royal Navy

Unit Text: (RFR/CH/B/1169). H.M.S. "Aboukir."

Age: 38

Date of Death: 22/09/1914

Service No: 279527

Additional information: Son of Thomas and Ellen Woolley, of Burham; husband of Emma Agnes Woolley, of Bell Lane, Burham, Rochester, Kent.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: 6.

Memorial: CHATHAM NAVAL MEMORIAL

++

Ian

If you want large copies of the plate here and the whole war memorial in Burham, PM me.

Look here too - http://www.kentfallen.com/PDF%20REPORTS/BURHAM.pdf

If you have more information about William that I can add to our report, let me know.

[Tony Lund]

Otto Weddigen’s account of the sinking of HMS Aboukir, Hogue and Cressy.

“It was ten minutes after 6 on the morning of last Tuesday when I caught sight of one of the big cruisers of the enemy. I was then eighteen sea miles northwest of the Hook of Holland. I had then travelled considerably more than 200 miles from my base. My boat was one of an old type, but she had been built on honour, and she was behaving beautifully. I had been going ahead partly submerged, with about five feet of my periscope showing.

“Almost immediately I caught sight of the first cruiser and two others. I submerged completely and laid my course so as to bring up in the centre of the trio, which held a sort of triangular formation. I could see their grey-black sides riding high over the water. When I first sighted them they were near enough for torpedo work, but I wanted to make my aim sure, so I went down and in on them. I had taken the position of the three ships before submerging, and I succeeded in getting another flash through my periscope before I began action.

“I soon reached what I regarded as a good shooting point. Then I loosed one of my torpedoes at the middle ship. I was then about twelve feet under water, and got the shot off in good shape, my men handling the boat as if she had been a skiff. I climbed to the surface to get a sight through my tube of the effect, and discovered that the shot had gone straight and true, striking the ship, which I later learned was the Aboukir, under one of her magazines, which in exploding helped the torpedo’s work of destruction. There was a fountain of water, a burst of smoke, a flash of fire, and part of the cruiser rose in the air. Then I heard a roar and felt reverberations sent through the water by the detonation. She had been broken apart, and sank in a few minutes.

“The Aboukir had been stricken in a vital spot and by an unseen force; that made the blow all the greater. Her crew were brave, and even with death staring them in the face kept to their posts, ready to handle their useless guns, for I submerged at once. But I had stayed on top long enough to see the other cruisers, which I learned Were the Cressy and the Hogue turn and steam full speed to their dying sister, whose plight they could not understand, unless it had been due to an accident. The ships came on a mission of inquiry and rescue, for many of the Aboukir's crew were now in the water, the order having been given, ‘Each man for himself’.

“But soon the other two English cruisers learned what had brought about the destruction so suddenly. As I reached my torpedo depth I sent a second charge at the nearest of the oncoming vessels, which was the Hogue. The English were playing my game, for I had scarcely to move out of my position, which was a great aid, since it helped to keep me from detection. On board my little boat the spirit of the German Navy was to be seen in its best form. With enthusiasm every man held himself in check and gave attention to the work in hand. The attack on the Hogue went true. But this time I did not have the advantageous aid of having the torpedo detonate under the magazine, so for twenty minutes the Hogue lay wounded and helpless on the surface before she heaved, half turned over and sank.

“By this time, the third cruiser knew of course that the enemy was upon her and she sought as best she could to defend herself. She loosed her torpedo defence batteries on boats, starboard and port, and stood her ground as if more anxious to help the many sailors who were in the water than to save herself. In common with the method of defending herself against a submarine attack, she steamed in a zigzag course, and this made it necessary for me to hold my torpedoes until I could lay a true course for them, which also made it necessary for me to get nearer to the Cressy. I had come to the surface for a view and saw how wildly the fire was being sent from the ship. Small wonder that was when they did not know where to shoot, although one shot went unpleasantly near us.

“When I got within suitable range I sent away my third attack. This time I sent a second torpedo after the first to make the strike doubly certain. My crew were aiming like sharpshooters and both torpedoes went to their bull’s-eye. My luck was with me again, for the enemy was made useless and at once began sinking by her head. Then she careened far over, but all the while her men stayed at the guns looking for their invisible foe. They were brave and true to their country’s sea traditions. Then she eventually suffered a boiler explosion and completely turned turtle. With her keel uppermost she floated until the air got out from under her and then she sank with a loud sound, as if from a creature in pain. The whole affair had taken less than one hour from the time of shooting off the first torpedo until the Cressy went to the bottom. Not one of the three had been able to use any of its big guns.

“I knew the wireless of the three cruisers had been calling for aid. I was still quite able to defend myself, but I knew that news of the disaster would call many English submarines and torpedo boat destroyers, so, having done my appointed work, I set my course for home. My surmise was right, for before I got very far some British cruisers and destroyers were on the spot, and the destroyers took up the chase. I kept under water most of the way, but managed to get off a wireless to the German fleet that I was heading homeward and being pursued. I hoped to entice the enemy, by allowing them now and then a glimpse of me, into the zone in which they might be exposed to capture or destruction by German warships, but, although their destroyers saw me plainly at dusk on the 22nd and made a final effort to stop me, they abandoned the attempt, as it was taking them too far from safety and needlessly exposing them to attack from our fleet and submarines.

“How much they feared our submarines and how wide was the agitation caused by good little U-9 is shown by the English reports that a whole flotilla of German submarines had attacked the cruisers and that this flotilla had approached under cover of the flag of Holland. These reports were absolutely untrue. U-9 was the only submarine on deck, and she flew the flag she still flies, the German naval ensign. The Kaiser conferred upon each of my co-workers the Iron Cross of the second class and upon me the Iron Cross of the first and second classes.”

Otto Weddigen, Commander of the U-9.

[sadsac]

ALL - note ; the salvage rights to the three ships were sold by the Admiralty in 1920 to a GERMAN Wrecking Company !! Shafts were blown and anything recoverable of worth taken then !!

The part re they should have Zig-Zagged ??? The BROAD Fourteens are not that broad !!!!!!

Sadsac

[Regulus 1]

The original Kriegstagebuch of Weddigen on the matter :

And it continues :

[Regulus 1]

[Regulus 1]

[watend]

Hi there,

On the subject of the HMS Aboukir, My Uncle was on this ship when it was sunk on the 22nd of September 1914 along with HMS Cressy & HMS Hague. He was Stoker 1st Class, William Henry Rylance, No, 277713 aged 41years and is commemorated on the Chathem War Memorial. He left a widow Rose Annie nee Watson, the story i was told about him was that he was due to leave the Navy as the war broke out but was abliged to stay on.

Ric.

[melliget]

Ric.

Just in case you don't have it, his service record can be downloaded here (for £3.50):

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=1

regards,

Martin

[watend]

Ric.

Just in case you don't have it, his service record can be downloaded here (for £3.50):

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=1

regards,

Martin

Martin,

Thanks for the information, I have most of what I need to know about Stoker Rylance, it is nice to know that other people still remember these sailors.

Ric

[David Seymour]

Even though the incongruity of a ram bow was pointed out at the Dreadnought design stage, yet it was retained and all battleships up to and including the Queen Elizabeth’s also retained a ram bow. 15 inch guns and they still thought the ships needed the back up of a ram! Nelson and Rodney were the first to be built without.

Dreadnought's bow was ram-shaped but not with the intention that she should ram anything with it. D K Brown, Warrior to Dreadnought, London, 1997, p. 190, makes the point that Fisher, in Naval Necessities, had said that a ram bow was no longer required. However, when he saw the straight bow proposed for Dreadnought he asked for the appearance of the old style ram bow. A ram bow model was tested and was slightly faster than the straight bow. The speed difference was only marginal but in service it contributed to making the ships wet.

Regards,

David

[per ardua per mare per terram]

...the story i was told about him was that he was due to leave the Navy as the war broke out but was abliged to stay on.

Welcome to the forum ric

He might have joined the Royal Fleet Reserve, so it might not have been against his will that he stayed on.

With his length of service, he might have served in some of the Victorian/Edwardian colonial wars.

[watend]

QUOTE (Martin Elliget @ May 25 2009, 12:48 AM) Ric.

Just in case you don't have it, his service record can be downloaded here (for £3.50):

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=1

regards,

Martin

Martin,

Thanks for the information, I have most of what I need to know about Stoker Rylance, it is nice to know that other people still remember these sailors.

Ric