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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

12185 Pte W.Hart R.S.FUS


Kai Mahoney
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Dear members

I have this Victory Medal WW1 for this soldier and I can see that other members have paid to see his medal card too.

If you have paid to have this card too can you please look at the soldier of my medal and help me understand what my soldiers card means?

I have the ideas

1. Joined up in the army 28.8.1914

2. Got wounded or sick and left the army on 23.3.1918

3. Has got a silver wounded badge which I can read about one day in England D/A/199.

4. Is maybe a star medal written on the top of the card.I cannot read the writing about it well and maybe my soldier has a star medal too.

Please tell me if I am wrong with my ideas so i can learn about medals more.

Thank you very much for helping me.

Kai

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Hello, Kai

Welcome to the forum.

Do you have a copy of the card saved on your computer? If you do, you should be able to put up a picture of it on here for everyone to see so that we can help you decifer what each bit means.

What you do is at the bottom of the thread click 'Add reply' (not 'Fast reply' which you can use the rest of the time).

Down below the box you type in, you'll see a bit called 'Attachments' where you can select the file off your hard drive to be uploaded onto the forum. Click the greyish button that says 'browse' and find the files on your hard drive. Once you've found it and selected it, you'll need to click the green 'upload' button.

Then post your reply as normal.

This will only work if the medal card picture isn't too big as you're only allowed to upload 100k pictures. If it's too big, you may need to either get someone to make it smaller, or email it to one of us on the forum and we'll put it up for you.

Allie

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Well done, neighbour Nick!

From that we can see he was in the Royal Scots Fusliers. I don't think the Royal Scots Fusiliers wore kilts, but someone could correct me on that. However they did wear a scottish hat called a Glengarry. I'll find you a picture of one.

Kai, is that the only card you have for this soldier? There are two listed for him online at the National Archives in Kew. I think the other one should look a bit like this:

post-13541-1192955968.jpg

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Okay, click here and that'll take you to a photo of some men from the R.S.F of the Great War period, each wearing a 'Glengarry'.

Another thing of interest is that your man was in the 6th Battalion Royal Scots Fusiliers. The man in charge of the 6th R.S.F for a few months in 1916 was a chap named Winston Churchill. Now Winston Churchill had been First Lord of the Admiralty at the beginning of the war, and the whole Gallipoli thing you will have learnt about in school was pretty much his idea. He lost his job because Gallipoli was such a disaster, so he decided to take a command at the Western Front (that means in France and Belgium). Winston Churchill went on to be Prime Minister of Great Britain during World War 2.

Allie

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Dear Allie

Thank you for helping me.My uncle got this for me it has 6 soldiers cards on the sheet 2 and the names are all the same but different numbers and regiments from England.We have never done it before and maybe we did it wrong. he said it was about $10 to get the info.It has 2 sheets but sheet number 1 is just a big logo for the archive website.

Please let me know if it is wrong and I will tell my uncle to check to the archive!

2 of the soldiers on the sheet have been killed and I am glad my soldier was not killed too!

On top of the card it says

sep 1914/15 star and something else but I cannot read it!

Thank you again Allie, you rock too!

Kai

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Pleased to help, Kai. :)

I don't think your uncle did anything 'wrong' as such. I've not that much experience getting the cards from Kew, and all the men I've got them for have only had one card. It just happens that your man appears to have two.

One of the cards can be purchased from this link.

The other can be purchased from this link. (I *think* that is the one you already have, but I can't be certain).

The reason you have several cards on your sheet is that they are done in alphabetical order (mostly!), and when they were photographed or scanned, they were done 6 at a time or so to save space.

It's very lucky your man wasn't killed. :) But I'll let you in on a sad fact about the war and research... it's actually sometimes easier to find information about someone who was killed. If someone was killed there was often something written in their local newspaper, or maybe their school magazine might write about them with a photo - if they went to High School, that is! Lots of men didn't.

Allie

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I think Gallipoli was a bad idea and it is good he lost his job.I watched the film with my dad from the library too last week. It has Mel Gibson in it.

Allie how can i find out about he was in the 6th battalion? Does it say that on my card?

Thank you for showing me the photo Allie.Please may I make a copy for my file?

Kai

Bah I have to go get ready for reading and bed

Kai

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Where you can go to buy the other card, it says:

Medal card of Hart, William

Corps: 6th Royal Scots Fusiliers

Regiment No: 12185

Rank: Private

That's how I know he was in the 6th.

Don't believe everything you see in that film! It had quite a few things in it that didn't happen the way the film maker said it did - he messed about with the facts. It is a good film and a rousing story, but it is just that - in some parts just a story.

The photo is off a family tree website. I think it would be all right to save it if it's just for you to look at and not publish or anything. The man who is seated is named John Waugh, apparently.

Allie

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On top of the card it says

sep 1914/15 star and something else but I cannot read it!

Hi, Kai.

I can't read that either, sorry.

Anyway, about the 1914/15 star.

There were four main medals you could get during WW1 just for participating (there were other ones you could be awarded for bravery such as the Victoria Cross). Those were:

1914 star (also sometimes called the 'Mons Star')

1914/15 star

The British War Medal

The Inter-Allied Victory Medal

To get the 1914 Star you had to have joined the army early enough that you were sent to the battlefield right at the beginning of the war, so you were fighting between the four month period of the start of the war in August 1914 and 22/23 November 1914. Your man enlisted right near the end of August 1914 but it seems he didn't get to the 'front' (where the fighting was) in time to qualify for the the 1914 Star. I think most of the men who got the 1914 star probably had already been in the army before the war, or at least in the Territorials (part-time army, training on weekends etc).

However, he did get to the fighting some time in either 1914 or 1915, because he qualified for the 1914/15 Star. To get that one, you had to have been fighting sometime in either 1914 or up to the end of 1915. You could not get both the 1914 Star and the 1914/15 Star. Possibly the other medal card might tell us when he first went into battle, but I'm guessing it'll say after 23 November 1914.

The British War Medal was awarded if you took part fighting in the war. He would have qualified for this.

The Inter-Allied Victory Medal (also known just as the Victory Medal - this is the one you've got) went to all the people in the allied armies who served in the armed forces during the war.

So your William Hart would have had three medals originally.

Allie

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Hi Allie

Thank you for all of the info on the medals I did not know for sure he could get these medals.

My file for the soldier is 372/9 and seems the same number for the 2 pages you have given.I think you are right about which one we got because i did not know his name was William.My dad says he will buy me the other card if it is different.

We will do it tomorrow because I want to watch but I have to go to bed 2 minutes ago :blush:

Good night Allie and thank you very much for helping me

kai

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You're welcome, Kai.

You know, it might be a good idea to start a new thread in the 'Soldiers' forum and ask if anyone can help you with information about William Hart or his battalion. You might get more people looking at the thread than in here where it's a little hidden away.

Allie

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My file for the soldier is 372/9 This is known as a piece number at the UK National Archives, how their files are stored

WO means that the records were from the War Office

372 is the number for: Service Medal and Award Rolls Index, First World War

9 contains the index cards for names in the range Hampton E - Holland D.

Unfortunately when they digitised these records they copied the microfiches not the original cards so the quality is not as good as it should be for your money. To me it looks like ‘sup 1914/15 Star card’ an cross reference to a supplementary 1914/15 Star index card.

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