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Alan Abbott

The Royal Scots (Lothian Regiment)

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Alan Abbott

I have the following Regimental history:-

The Royal Scots 1914-1919 by Major J Ewing (Edinburgh, Oliver & Boyd, 1925)

Regards,

Alan.

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Piorun
I have the following Regimental history:-

The Royal Scots 1914-1919 by Major J Ewing (Edinburgh, Oliver & Boyd, 1925)

Regards,

Alan.

I also have access to this history and am willing to look up on request. Antony

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Rockford

Good afternoon,

I'm not sure what kind of information might be contained in the history, but I would be grateful if you were able to check for any mention of Private James Thomson [29616] of the Royal Scots from Blackburn, West Lothian. I am afraid that I have not been able to establish a battalion for him, which I appreciate might make things more difficult, although I know he lost both legs in April/May 1917, presumably at Arras, and was invalided home.

He was my mother's great uncle. He survived this severe injury and, after being fitted with tin legs, lived on until 1960. His obituary read "such was his determination, that he walked, cycled and even drove a motor car"!

Best wishes

Brian

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jdajd

Looking for some information as to the actions of the 2 Bn. Royal Scots in or around Ypres on Sept. 25, 1915. Thanks Especially any info on:

Name: BOYD, SAMUEL

Initials: S

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Royal Scots

Unit Text: 2nd Bn.

Date of Death: 25/09/1915

Service No: 14110

Additional information: Served as ROBINSON.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 11.

Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL

Jon

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Piorun
you were able to check for any mention of Private James Thomson [29616] of the Royal Scots from Blackburn, West Lothian. I am afraid that I have not been able to establish a battalion for him, which I appreciate might make things more difficult, although I know he lost both legs in April/May 1917, presumably at Arras,

Unfortunately, Brian, Major Ewing’s history, like most of its genre, is short on the names of private soldiers and long on the names of officers. Of the few private soldiers or NCO’s mentioned, your relative is not one.

The Arras battles in April and May involved many battalions of Royal Scots, including the 2nd, 8th (a pioneer battalion), 9th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 15th and 16th.

In a daring daylight raid on April 5th, two platoons of C Company, 13th Bn., commanded by Captain J.A. Turner, entered the German trenches and returned with only four men wounded. On April 7th, a raiding party from the 16th invaded the German lines and captured three prisoners. However, their officer, Captain Cowan, was wounded and captured.

As the main battle commenced on April 9th, the 8th, 9th, 11th, 12th, 15th and 16th Battalions were north of the river Scarpe, the 2nd and 13th were south. Despite the relative success of the day, it is recorded that the 11th suffered over one hundred casualties (killed, wounded and missing), the 12th nearly two hundred.

On 12th/13th of April, the 2nd and 13th Battalions were relieved and went out of line. To this point 2nd Royal Scots had lost nearly thirty-five other ranks killed, two hundred wounded, and forty-three missing. On the same day, 11th and 12th Battalions were involved in a costly and abortive attack on the chemical works near Roeux. By the time it was over, 11th had suffered nearly one hundred and fifty casualties among the other ranks and 12th had suffered nearly two hundred and fifty.

Between April 9th and 12th, 9th Battalion suffered two hundred and thirty casualties among the other ranks and between April 9th and 14th, the 15th and 16th Battalions suffered over five hundred casualties among their other ranks. Until the 23rd of April, only 9th Battalion came into contact with the enemy but on the 23rd, both it and 13th Battalion entered savage fighting, south and north of the Scarpe respectively. By the time it was over, 13th had lost over one hundred dead and two hundred other ranks wounded or missing and the 9th had lost in similar numbers. But the worst was yet to come. On April 28th, the 15th and 16th battalions went into action around Roeux. By the time the dust settled that day, the battalions had lost over five hundred killed and wounded out of a total combined strength of only eight hundred.

On 3rd May, 2nd Battalion attacked around Monchy le Preux and was relieved on 6/7th of May. Since April 24th it had lost two hundred and fifty four other ranks killed and wounded. North of the Scarpe, 12th Bn. got into a sharp fight to aid a withdrawal by 6th KOSB that cost a hundred and twenty-one casualties in the other ranks. Little more involved the Royal Scots that month.

Somewhere in these notations of casualties is your man. I wish I could be of more help. Have you tried Ancestry.co.uk or the Royal Scots Association? Ask for battalion or Company Rolls.

Sorry I can't be of more help. Antony

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Piorun
Looking for some information as to the actions of the 2 Bn. Royal Scots in or around Ypres on Sept. 25, 1915. Thanks Especially any info on:

Name: BOYD, SAMUEL

Initials: S

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Royal Scots

Unit Text: 2nd Bn.

Date of Death: 25/09/1915

Service No: 14110

Additional information: Served as ROBINSON.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 11.

Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL

Jon

Give me 48 hours. Antony

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Piorun
Looking for some information as to the actions of the 2 Bn. Royal Scots in or around Ypres on Sept. 25, 1915. Thanks Especially any info on:

Name: BOYD, SAMUEL

Initials: S

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Royal Scots

Unit Text: 2nd Bn.

Date of Death: 25/09/1915

Service No: 14110

Additional information: Served as ROBINSON.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 11.

Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL

Jon

Hello, Jon: Regrettably, military histories such as Major Ewing's contain very little information about Other Ranks - and your man is not mentioned. What I can tell you is that, according to Major Ewing's history, the 2nd Battalion Royal Scots spent the greater part of 1915 in the Ypres Salient. On May 1st, it formed a small battalion pipe band. On May 12th, it transferred from the Kemmel sector to trenches north of "Hill 60". On May 25th, it moved farther north to a position near "Railway Wood" just east of Ieper. On June 16th, the Battalion carried out an attack on "Y Wood". When it was relieved on June 19th, the Battalion had been in the trenches for twenty-five consecutive days and was now given much needed rest until mid-July when it moved into new positions north of "Sanctuary Wood" where it was destined to go through much bitter fighting in September. On September 25th, the Battalion lay in trenches in "Sanctuary Wood", south of the Ieper/Menin Road almost on the right flank of the Third Division, that position being held by a company of the Royal Scots Fusiliers. In front of them, the ground rose steadily towards Hooge. The battalion objectives were the German front line, a hundred yards away, then the German support trenches, then "Sandbag Castle", a small natural hill, heavily fortified. 'A', 'B' and 'C' Companies were detailed for the assault; 'D' Company was held in reserve. The artillery bombardment started at 0350 hours, mines were exploded underneath the German trenches directly opposite 'B' Company and the men advanced steadily, eventually taking their objectives and trying to dig in. However, the Germans then began a vicious counter-attack that took advantage of stalled advances on either side of the Battalion. The heavy bombardment prevented 'D' Company and the sappers from running a communication trench to the new front lines and, by the end of the day, after fighting a very stiff rear-guard action, the entire Battalion was back where it started. It had suffered two hundred and forty-four killed, wounded and missing among its other ranks together with four officers killed and eight wounded or missing. On September 27th, the Battalion moved into billets in Ouderdon but returned to the front line on the 29th to a sector to the south of their original position. 'C' Company took part in a bombing raid together with a company of the Middlesex and a company of Suffolks that fought for ten yards of trench and cost sixty casualties. On October 1st, 'C' Company rejoined the Battalion. For the rest of October, the Battalion was in and out of the line at "Sanctuary Wood" and suffered relatively little. For the greater part of November it was out of the line. On November 29th, the Battalion took over trenches near St.Eloi where the history records little of interest except that their snipers managed to bag ten Germans on New Year's Day 1916.

I'm sorry I can't be of more help but it is clear that your man fought in a successful attack and a gallant rear-guard action on that day. He was among very brave soldiers.

Yours aye, Antony

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Rockford
Unfortunately, Brian, Major Ewing’s history, like most of its genre, is short on the names of private soldiers and long on the names of officers. Of the few private soldiers or NCO’s mentioned, your relative is not one.

Hi Antony,

Thank you for taking the time to look. I thought that the likelihood of James being mentioned was slim, but I appreciate the time you've taken to give me some of the detail surrounding the Royal Scots' involvement in the fighting at Arras, as it helps me understand what was going on around the time James was injured.

I had the same problem with battalion photographs of the 9th Black Watch, where another relation was also a private. All the officers are named, but none of the other ranks, so I know I've seen my relation, but I don't know which one is him!

Thanks again,

Brian

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Piorun
Hi Antony,

Thank you for taking the time to look. I thought that the likelihood of James being mentioned was slim, but I appreciate the time you've taken to give me some of the detail surrounding the Royal Scots' involvement in the fighting at Arras, as it helps me understand what was going on around the time James was injured.

I had the same problem with battalion photographs of the 9th Black Watch, where another relation was also a private. All the officers are named, but none of the other ranks, so I know I've seen my relation, but I don't know which one is him!

Thanks again,

Brian

Brian, I really do share your frustration. I look at a battalion photograph of 7 Cameron Highlanders and know that my wife's uncle is there - I just can't see him!!! Sorry. A.

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Tomclark
I also have access to this history and am willing to look up on request. Antony

I know this may be a bit of a long shot but wondered where i would be able to get information on my grand father John Drew who served during the first war with the Royal Scots. He came from Fauldhouse in West Lothian and was a miner who enlisted as a volunteer. He spent time as I recall in a place called Mullingar in Ireland.

Where would I be able to get a copy of his service record or will it indeed be accessible?

Thanks for any help in advance.

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dycer

Tony,

If you can identify his Battalion it may help.

The Royal Scots are a glorious Regiment,and their History s without question.

Before and during WW1 the Regiment raised many Battalions.

They were all illustrious Battalions,as a miner your Grandfather may have joined the 8th Battalion,which was a Pioneer Battalion,and whose History I and others can assist.

Equally he may have been drafted into the Dandy 9th or the 16th who as Battalions of the Royal Scots,are seen to be more historically important.

George

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Tomclark
Tony,

If you can identify his Battalion it may help.

The Royal Scots are a glorious Regiment,and their History s without question.

Before and during WW1 the Regiment raised many Battalions.

They were all illustrious Battalions,as a miner your Grandfather may have joined the 8th Battalion,which was a Pioneer Battalion,and whose History I and others can assist.

Equally he may have been drafted into the Dandy 9th or the 16th who as Battalions of the Royal Scots,are seen to be more historically important.

George

I also know that he was stationed at Edinburgh Castle if that is any help?

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keithmroberts

Re John Drew

I can't see a medal Index card for a John Drew who served in the Royal Scots, but there is one for a John Drew in the Royal Scots Fusiliers. and later in the Labour Corps. That John Drew had regimental numbers, 30539 and 515433 for the two units respectively. could this be the man?

Both the Royal Scots, and the Royal Scots Fusiliers had battalions that spent time in ireland (see the Long Long Trail), but I don't know enough Irish geography to tie the movements in with the locations mentioned.

Otherwise - does anyone in the family hold his service medals - the information stamped round the edge is a good starting point. Was John Drew his full name?

Keith

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jdajd

Antony:

Thank you for the taking the time to look up the information. Unlike many on this board I have no personal connection to the above, but was intrigued by his name on the Menin Gate insofar as he served under an alias. Again, thanks.

Jon

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Piorun
Antony:

Thank you for the taking the time to look up the information. Unlike many on this board I have no personal connection to the above, but was intrigued by his name on the Menin Gate insofar as he served under an alias. Again, thanks.

Jon

You are very welcome, Jon. Antony

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Piorun
I know this may be a bit of a long shot but wondered where i would be able to get information on my grand father John Drew who served during the first war with the Royal Scots. He came from Fauldhouse in West Lothian and was a miner who enlisted as a volunteer. He spent time as I recall in a place called Mullingar in Ireland.

Where would I be able to get a copy of his service record or will it indeed be accessible?

Thanks for any help in advance.

Hello, TomCI: As I've intimated to others, the regimental histories contain very few, if any, references to Other Ranks - and I'm assuming that, according to the class distinctions of the day, a coal miner would not have been an officer. However, if we can find which battalion John Drew served in, then I'm happy to research the activities of that battalion and report back to you. As to his Service Record, I can find no trace. As Keith has already posted, there is a Medal Index card for John Drew which gives the Royal Scots Fusiliers and then the Labour Corps as his regiments. Given your grandfather's occupation, this does seem to be a possible fit.

In January 1916, 2/4th Battalion RSF was stationed in Ireland. While it had been formed in Kilmarnock in 1914, it was stationed in Falkirk in late 1915, not that far from Fauldhouse. The 10th (Works) Battalion was formed in Ayr in June 1916 and, in April 1917, was converted into a Labour Corps battalion. However, I can't find a record of it having been in Ireland.

Sorry I can't be of more help at the moment. Antony

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Tomclark
Re John Drew

I can't see a medal Index card for a John Drew who served in the Royal Scots, but there is one for a John Drew in the Royal Scots Fusiliers. and later in the Labour Corps. That John Drew had regimental numbers, 30539 and 515433 for the two units respectively. could this be the man?

Both the Royal Scots, and the Royal Scots Fusiliers had battalions that spent time in ireland (see the Long Long Trail), but I don't know enough Irish geography to tie the movements in with the locations mentioned.

Otherwise - does anyone in the family hold his service medals - the information stamped round the edge is a good starting point. Was John Drew his full name?

Keith

Yes John Drew was his full name. He was born on 4th March 1897. Thanks very much for your help regarding this. The only parts were I know he was in Mullingar and also mentioned about being at Edinburgh Castle as well. Wish I had listened more as a kid.

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Piorun

Hello, TomCI: as I posted above, 2/4th Royal Scots Fusiliers were in Ireland. They were at Ballykinler Camp in Northern Ireland then moved to the west to Galway in the South. After that they moved to Dublin. On any of those moves, passing through Mullingar, possibly staying a while, is a very high probability as Mullingar was a garrison town at the time. I'd be prepared to wager a small amount that this is your man's battalion and regiment. Antony

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eltoro1960

Like other posters I cannot find a John Drew within the ranks of the Royal Scots, one problem I have with the RSF theory is that the MIC for John Drew in the RSF / Labour Corps does not mention a SWB list number which I would think is a gimme if the poor man lost his legs. The 2/10th (Linlithgowshire) Royal Scots were moved to Ireland from home defence in 1918, then on Russia until 1919. However their men were cherry picked for other units throughout the war, they never set foot on French soil.

A bit of a mystery ,are you certain he was with the Royal Scots? Forum member WW1_daleboys also known as Tom Gordon ma be able to assist with a check on West Lothian newspapers.

John

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Rockford
one problem I have with the RSF theory is that the MIC for John Drew in the RSF / Labour Corps does not mention a SWB list number which I would think is a gimme if the poor man lost his legs.

Hi John,

I think there's a crossed wire here - it was me who asked about the soldier (James Thomson) of the Royal Scots who was the one who lost his legs. He did indeed receive an SWB. TomCl was asking about John Drew, a different man, who is the one who might have served with the RSF.

Best wishes

Brian

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Jesse

Any listing of Cpl. William Curr, 1/5 & 5/6 battalions?

I have the following Regimental history:-

The Royal Scots 1914-1919 by Major J Ewing (Edinburgh, Oliver & Boyd, 1925)

Regards,

Alan.

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Piorun
if the poor man lost his legs.

Wee bit of a barbed-wire entanglement here, John. It was not John Drew who was wounded. Antony

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Piorun
Any listing of Cpl. William Curr, 1/5 & 5/6 battalions?

Hello, Jesse: There is no Index listing for Cpl. Curr in Major Ewing's history. Sorry, Antony.

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Jesse

Thank you, Antony. Anything on L/Cpl. Archibald McAlpine, 13th Btn, KIA 15.9.18? Or what this unit was about that day?

Hello, Jesse: There is no Index listing for Cpl. Curr in Major Ewing's history. Sorry, Antony.

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eltoro1960
Wee bit of a barbed-wire entanglement here, John. It was not John Drew who was wounded. Antony

Indeed, do not post when tired.

James Thompson by his service number looks like he was in one the service battalions, rather than a TF unit ie the 8th or 9th RS. (The 9th wore kilts incidentally).

Of the service battalions the 15th and 16th were with the 34th Division in the north of the sector around the Point de Jour Ridge, the 11th and 12th were with the 9th Scottish were to thier right around Rouex and the Chemical Works. The 8th and 9th were with the 51st Highland Division, they ended up having a go at the Chemical Works to.

It's not had and fast but quite a lot of West Lothian men were in the 12th , but they were in all the battalions to be fair.

The advice re Tom Gordon still stands though, an injury as serious as this would have merited a mention in the West Lothian Courier.

John

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