Artillerymen - a soft option?

[centurion]

Roop

Just one thing - why would the number of horses effect the age distribution? Horse handling takes time to learn just like many other skills.

[KONDOA]

Because, I would suggest, proportionately more young men enlisted in 1914 than older ones. Less family commitments, more money, chance to travel etc etc. Older men had a harder decision to make in general terms.

Horse skills could be learned once in the army. First find 700 odd men.

Roop

[centurion]

Sorry Roop - I may be being obtuse but you said

"RFA probably had more younger men than the RGA as there were far more horses."

Surely young men would be equally lacking in horse handling skills as in any other skills, all of which would be equally easy or difficult to learn once one was in the army.Horses might be a reason why there mught be a diference in tow/country distribution but I still don't see where horses affect the age distribution.

[KONDOA]

The relationship is that far more men were required in the RFA because of the number of horses. Thus those numbers , ignoring the horse " grubfuttock posture", would tend to be more rapidly raised from the younger men who I have suggested outnumbered their older comrades in the initial raising of batteries etc.

Roop

[Gunner Bailey]

Sorry Roop - I may be being obtuse but you said

"RFA probably had more younger men than the RGA as there were far more horses."

Surely young men would be equally lacking in horse handling skills as in any other skills, all of which would be equally easy or difficult to learn once one was in the army.Horses might be a reason why there mught be a diference in tow/country distribution but I still don't see where horses affect the age distribution.

Don't forget that in the early 1900's the horse and cart were the equivalent of the 'White Van' nowadays. They were everywhere. In my family history many of the young men were listed as 'Car Man', which is working on a horse and cart, so these skills were prolific in the towns as well as the countryside.

In my grandfather's discharge testimonial from the RFA in 1919 it states he was 'good with horses', so it was a skill to take back into civvy street.

Gunner Bailey

[Gunboat]

I think I'm seeing a pattern amongst Stockport's war dead in that the artillerymen generally seem older than the infantrymen.

John

There is insufficient information to allow any real assessment of whether age was a factor in itself

We dont know for example whether the artillerymen in question were regular reservists called back to the colours which may explain the maturity. Similarly if there was a RFA Territorial Unit in the area that may have had an establishment of maturer men than that of the younger men answering Kitcheners call. And I agree with the point about the drivers of horse drawn wagons or carts were the "white van man" of those times so on enlistment "experienced" drivers may have been directed to the RFA for mounted duties (or joined the Local RFA Territorial Unit for that reason) as opposed to the infantry. In a previous thread there was some discussion as to whether the designation of Driver in the RFA (which was orginally acquired after passing a proficiency test) was less used during the war so that artillerymen who were gun team drivers or drivers in the ammunition columns may have been still designated as Gunners.

[John_Hartley]

There is insufficient information to allow any real assessment of whether age was a factor in itself

You may be right.

I've looked at 139 men where I know their ages. 43 of them (31%) were aged 31 or older at time of death. It would be interesting to see if anyone has similar age information for, say, an infantry battalion.

Looking at the spread of these deaths throughout the war, I see there's another possibility - that artillerymen live longer. In the period 1914 - 1916, there are 37 deaths. Of these, 7 (19%) were aged 31+. When I look at 1917 - 1918, there are 102 deaths, of which 36 (35%) are aged 31+.

Of course, what I havnt got are sufficient details to know when the men enlisted.

John

[kevinrowlinson]

Of course, what I havnt got are sufficient details to know when the men enlisted.

John

If you were to list them on the forum, or PM me, I may be able to help with RGA enlistment dates. I am not sure how this would prove anything though. If there were twice as many gunners in 1917 than 1914 then one could argue that there may be twice the casualties.

Kevin

[John_Hartley]

Kevin

Ta for the offer, mate, but I'm not that fussed.

John