James H Posted 31 March , 2008 Share Posted 31 March , 2008 I was dubious about reading this book because some of the reviews made it sound rubbish. For example, "as early as 1903, HG Wells had published his story "The Land Ironclads". The idea appealed to the First Lord of the Admiralty, Winston Churchill, and the first experimental tanks (though not yet called that) were the work of the Navy, not the Army," sounds more like a satire than an accurate account. The book's reception here has persuaded me to give it a try. However, I'm still sceptical in view of the following: This is from Amazon's blurb for Band of Brigands, pub. October 2007: Very few of them had been professional soldiers; they were motoring enthusiasts and mechanics, plumbers, motorcyclists, circus performers and polar explorers. This is from P.71 of Tank, by Patrick Wright. It is a rather strange book that tries too hard to attach cultural and artistic significance to aspects of Tank development, but does at least tell most of the story along the way. The point is that it was published in 2000: Very few of the recruits were trained soldiers. There was a music hall proprietor; The Medical Officer had previously spent two years with Shackleton at the South Pole; the assistant technical adviser had managed motor buses in New York; a signals officer ... an acrobat whose pre-war achievements included rigging up the electrical apparatus that had enabled some "thought-readers" known as The Smithsons to deceive their London audiences. And Mr. Wright says in his footnotes that this information comes from much earlier books by C.D. Baker-Carr and E. Charteris. Haven't yet read Band of Brigands, but I don't see the point of this. Wright says later that no more than 2 or 3 per cent of the 20,000 men who served in the Tank Corps were professional soldiers. I should think the same applied to the rest of the armies by 1918. And if they were recruits they obviously had jobs before the War. It seems to me that most of the men described had some talent that they were able to bring to the Corps, whether it was technical, admin, or indomitability. The whole point was that there was no previous experience on which to draw. And I hardly think that a man who shared Shackleton's ordeal is a figure of fun. Lt-Col Wilfrith Elstob V.C. was a schoolteacher, but that didn't stop him fighting to the death. This all sounds like a very cheap shot to me. There'd be no more jokes in music halls To mock the riddled corpses round Bapaume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidearm Posted 31 March , 2008 Share Posted 31 March , 2008 I have just been lent Wright's book "Tank" by a councillor in the council I work for - so I'm probably now obliged to read it! I have only browsed the first few chapters, as my interest in tanks tends to wane by 1944-45. I thought there was some interesting material in there that might be worth checking out the primary sources for, but on the whole the history of tank development has been done in a much more balanced and detailed way elsewhere. For example, Walter Wilson gets a mention on just one page (the same as Voltaire...), William Tritton gets two and Albert Stern gets three mentions. Swinton gets a paragraph just in the index including a note that reads "invention of tank and...". OK - that's not a very good way to sum up a 450 page book. But comparing that to a browse through "Band of Brigands" and it's immediately obvious where anyone's reading time is best invested. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 1 April , 2008 Share Posted 1 April , 2008 Gwyn - any mention of tank crew members in Wright's book ? S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidearm Posted 1 April , 2008 Share Posted 1 April , 2008 I think there might be. Will check and post again. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 1 April , 2008 Share Posted 1 April , 2008 many thanx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidearm Posted 4 April , 2008 Share Posted 4 April , 2008 Please bear with me Delta. Thought I'd have been able to find time by now, but it just hasn't happened. I've not forgotten tho'. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 5 April , 2008 Share Posted 5 April , 2008 Gwyn - many thanks for thinkign of me. we all seem to be busy - I owe Donnie some help and have not managed to get to the library in weeks Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedCoat Posted 5 April , 2008 Share Posted 5 April , 2008 Gwyn - many thanks for thinkign of me. we all seem to be busy - I owe Donnie some help and have not managed to get to the library in weeks Stephen Dont worry mate, take as long as you need.....i dont mind. Thanks, Donnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidearm Posted 6 April , 2008 Share Posted 6 April , 2008 Delta, If you send me your e-mail address by PM I shall send you what I've found. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 9 April , 2008 Share Posted 9 April , 2008 Gwyn Mny thanks - will read it over lunch S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 9 April , 2008 Share Posted 9 April , 2008 Damn fine addition to the history of the tank I thought - as important in its way as was Tanks at Flers - covers new ground, reads well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 10 April , 2008 Share Posted 10 April , 2008 Gwyn Thanks fo the extracts especially those concerning Mac Francis Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted 30 April , 2008 Share Posted 30 April , 2008 I've just read the book. I was dismayed by the reviews, which made it sound awful. It turned out that it was just the reviewers who were awful, clearly reviewing a book on a subject about which they knew very little. Things brightened up once I started reading it; the descriptive passages are compelling (although one can hardly go wrong in quoting from diaries) and the general picture Mr. C paints is admirably evocative. Disappointingly, especially in the later stages, there are some quite remarkably elementary factual errors that I'm surprised to see and that, in my view, create unfortunate misgivings about the book's overall value. I've posted my review in the Landships Forum. If Mr. C wants to take me up on any of the points I'd be happy to discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest christy campbell Posted 16 May , 2008 Share Posted 16 May , 2008 I've just read the book. I was dismayed by the reviews, which made it sound awful. It turned out that it was just the reviewers who were awful, clearly reviewing a book on a subject about which they knew very little. Things brightened up once I started reading it; the descriptive passages are compelling (although one can hardly go wrong in quoting from diaries) and the general picture Mr. C paints is admirably evocative. Disappointingly, especially in the later stages, there are some quite remarkably elementary factual errors that I'm surprised to see and that, in my view, create unfortunate misgivings about the book's overall value. I've posted my review in the Landships Forum. If Mr. C wants to take me up on any of the points I'd be happy to discuss. dear JamesH please help. Could you point out the the factual errors. I can correct them for the paperback. Can you tell me where I can can find the awful reviews. Where is your review? regards christy campbell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Armstrong Custer Posted 17 May , 2008 Author Share Posted 17 May , 2008 Christy, Great to see you back on this forum - though I regret the circumstances. I believe the fact that James' polemic elicited no responses speaks for itself. I know of no 'awful reviews' - on the contrary! For what it's worth, rest assured that I, for one, find your history of the men of the tank corps a bench-mark, and engagingly-written, study. ciao, GAC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesmessenger Posted 17 May , 2008 Share Posted 17 May , 2008 Christy I, too, would like to say how much I enjoyed your book, which proivded some refreshing new perspectives. Charles M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidearm Posted 18 May , 2008 Share Posted 18 May , 2008 Christy, The Landships Forum that JamesH refers to is at www.landships.freeservers.com/forum.htm but this isn't necessarily a personal endorsement of his review! Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17tankman Posted 19 May , 2008 Share Posted 19 May , 2008 Hi new to the forum and my first posting but hear goes - have read the band of brigands and was impressed by it but the book i thought was better was THE LANDSHIPS OF LINCOLN BY RICHARD PULLEN it gives details of the tank production which was very interesting worth buying it is on ebay. The best bit was page 131 when a phote showed Sgt Harry EMANS who had been in every major tank battle. This rang a bell and I look in my medal collection and found a Victory Medal to 200585 Sjt H E EMANS TANK CORPS. Was I pleased or not Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 20 May , 2008 Share Posted 20 May , 2008 Simon Welcome to the Forum - hadn't spotted Emans as an original tankee; can you tell me more? Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Seymour Posted 20 May , 2008 Share Posted 20 May , 2008 Band of Brigands very good, Christy. Well done. Have read it and am now on John Glanfield's The Devil's Chariots. These two books complement each other very well. With best wishes, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 20 May , 2008 Share Posted 20 May , 2008 Emans' service records are on Ancestry in two batches - original number 2797 MMGS. To France, 18-9-1916 initially headed for "B" Company, but posted as a Gunner to "C" Company on 1-10-1916 joining them on 18-11-1916, so he missed Flers (and your project) - but still an early tankee. He served with "C" Company/"C" Battalion/3rd Battalion through the war apart from a hiatus as an instructor in England (his records suggest that he was on one of the Tank tours) between May and August 1918, so he presumably served in the Whippets when 3rd battalion converted. He was discharged at Cologne from 12th Battalion in 1919. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 21 May , 2008 Share Posted 21 May , 2008 Thank you Master! Looks like I will have to produce an addendum for A and B companies (I have a small set of info on the tankees who served in Paeslestine) On.... on.... Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17tankman Posted 21 May , 2008 Share Posted 21 May , 2008 delta what about this one for the longest in the Tank Corps (20 Days) Pte W F Graves 112125 posted to K Battlion MGCHB. He was also 1734 King Edwards Horse (alot came form here) and RE, 3rd Liverpool Reg and RE Railway Troops. Looks like he went to Bovington and considered unsuitable in Aug 1917. He is also one for your palestine troops - Capt Maurice Freeman Shore was at the 2nd Battle of Gaza I will look for more medals for early tankers for you. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 21 May , 2008 Share Posted 21 May , 2008 Simon - thank you Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17tankman Posted 4 June , 2008 Share Posted 4 June , 2008 Stephen On the subject of Sgt Emans - had a call from someone connected with the Lincoln Tank Group who found that they had met Emans and recorded his time in the tank corps. Got the tape and going to listen to it tonight. Doing really well considering I only bought the VM medal as now have medal, photo, mentioned in book and voice of soldier. Hopefully not to long will get his BWM. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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