Jump to content
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Photo of a group of sergeants


andy17191
 Share

Recommended Posts

post-11358-1192051634.jpgHi everyone,

I posted this photo some weeks ago, but got no response, so I'm trying again!

All are sergeants in army ordnance corps, but my man (2nd from right, seated, Chris Watkiss) was attached to 42nd East Lancs MGC.

Therefore, what occasion or location would call for a group photo of aoc sergeants to be taken?

I think that it's in France somewhere, as it says "carte postale" on the rear.

Thanks

Andy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Andy - I'll start the ball rolling ad see where we go from there.

Judging from the dwelling to the rear; which seems to have some sort of decoration on the right hand side, I would suggest it is an armistice picture; if so, perhaps it is snapshot of a group of lads who joined up toether and made it through the war

but I could very well be wrong

Stephen

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was going to suggest nearer the start of the war, mainly 'cause of the soft caps they're wearing and none of 'em have a ribbon i.e. 14 Star or decoration. Also they seem to appear quite relaxed and not "war weary". The decoration on the right looks like someones washing line :ph34r: As for location, it could be almost any where I would have thought.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was going to suggest nearer the start of the war, mainly 'cause of the soft caps they're wearing and none of 'em have a ribbon i.e. 14 Star or decoration. Also they seem appear quite relaxed and not "war weary". The decoratino n the right looks like someone's washing line :ph34r: As for location, it could be almost any where I would have thought.

I'm inclined to agree with you, eviltaxman, and not an armistice picture, as my man died of influenza a week after armistice day, so probably wouldn;t have looked as "chipper" as he does!

However I also know that he went to France (from Egypt) in March 1917.

Cheers

Andy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is just a thought, my dad, serving 1945-51, has a few of this type of picture, taken when he was moving from one place to another, could this have been taken as a momento because your man was going to move

Barbara

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is just a thought, my dad, serving 1945-51, has a few of this type of picture, taken when he was moving from one place to another, could this have been taken as a momento because your man was going to move

Barbara

Yes, that would seem to be the most likely.

I wonder if this was taken soon after arrival in France, before they were detailed off to their various attachments.

And would that give any clue as to location?

Another observation - what about the chap seated far left, with the leather sash. Also cuff badges - what are they?

Was he a senior officer or lieutenant etc?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I too would suggest early in the war.... otherwise we might see a smattering of overseas chevrons, but I see none. Could it be the WOs and Sgts mess?

The chap seated front, thrid from left is terribly familiar, but I cant place him.

The cuff badges are the Royal Arms - the badge of rank for a Warrant Officer Class 1, commonly, but not always, RSM. An AOC WO I might just as easily be a "Conductor". He is a senior non-commissioned rank (warrant officer) and wears a Sam Browne Belt and a single shoulder brace. As a WO I he would have appeared in the Army list.

I'm with Les regarding the washing line.

Nigel

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I too would suggest early in the war.... otherwise we might see a smattering of overseas chevrons, but I see none. Could it be the WOs and Sgts mess?

The chap seated front, thrid from left is terribly familiar, but I cant place him.

The cuff badges are the Royal Arms - the badge of rank for a Warrant Officer Class 1, commonly, but not always, RSM. An AOC WO I might just as easily be a "Conductor". He is a senior non-commissioned rank (warrant officer) and wears a Sam Browne Belt and a single shoulder brace. As a WO I he would have appeared in the Army list.

I'm with Les regarding the washing line.

Nigel

Hi Nigel,

Thanks for that. The chap seated third from left is my great uncle (ie same as second from right!), Chris Watkiss, whose movements I am trying to trace.

Andy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just a suggestion..could it be the end of a training course? Quite often group photos were taken before poeple went their seperate ways. And judging by the diary I have of my avatar John Joseph they seemed to be forever being sent on courses! Bomb throwing, use of rifle grenades etc etc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On closer inspection, the chap (front left with the Sam Browne) has a square cap badge compared to the chaps around him.... or is it a trick of the light? I'm still edging towards 1914-15 era and tend to agree about the possibility that they have gone through a training course but only assuming the Sam Browne chap was the instructor. Otherwise I'd have to stick with them being pals/chums/mates etc that have got their promotion to WO I or WO II together and had a pic taken before they moved on.

Les.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

post-11647-1192187731.jpg

Have had a go at enhancing the Sam Browne wearer. it would seem he either has a square badge or no badge at all! What do we make of this?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would suggest that a least some of the cap badges are alike or very similar, could you make a detailed inspection of them? Also, it could be that they are newly promoted sergeants on a course which would, I think, mean early in the war. Would they send them on courses later in the war?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

post-11647-1192187731.jpg

Have had a go at enhancing the Sam Browne wearer. it would seem he either has a square badge or no badge at all! What do we make of this?

Don't know if this is any clearer?

post-11358-1192214521.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was going to suggest nearer the start of the war, mainly 'cause of the soft caps they're wearing and none of 'em have a ribbon i.e. 14 Star or decoration. Also they seem to appear quite relaxed and not "war weary". The decoration on the right looks like someones washing line :ph34r: As for location, it could be almost any where I would have thought.

The hats worn in 1914/15 had thin stiff edges round the top edge but as the war continued it became more acceptable to remove the stiffeners and have a thicker softer edge - this would suggest post 1916. (soldiers didn't wear battle bowlers that much when out of the line)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi All

think its a photo taken just before they were posted to there new units

if you look on there sleves you can see trade badges, your man was sent to a MGC unit therefore i would take it that they are all ARMR's, just relaxing before the horrors start

when it was taken not sure but would think early on as non of them has a lanyard, have a few group pics late 1915 1916 and on all pics a few have a lanyards on, later on the war got the more men wore them

Ian

P.S. you have a number for your man

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi All

think its a photo taken just before they were posted to there new units

if you look on there sleves you can see trade badges, your man was sent to a MGC unit therefore i would take it that they are all ARMR's, just relaxing before the horrors start

when it was taken not sure but would think early on as non of them has a lanyard, have a few group pics late 1915 1916 and on all pics a few have a lanyards on, later on the war got the more men wore them

Ian

P.S. you have a number for your man

Hi,

Yes, I do have his number. It's A2000.

Incidentally, I've just managed to locate his name on a memorial in his home town of Wolverhampton - with the help of Doug Lewis. Thanks Doug!

Andy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...