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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Shoulder title and armband query


Rolfi
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Can anyone tell me more about this armband and shoulder title; of the Hotel Dieu Military Hospital, Waterloo (Liverpool). Both were the property of a St John's Ambulance V.A.D.. I woluld especially like to know on what uniform they would have been worn; they aren't worn on ward dress.

Any information about the hospital itself would also be very welcome.

hdnhwholetx4.jpg

hdmhtitlegk9.jpg

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Rolfi

I am responding so that you don't feel that you are being ignored. I have been watching your post as I have an interest in UK Military Hospitals and surprised no one has come up with any suggestions. My only suggestion, noting the French flag on the armband, is the possibility of it being established for French service personnel.

Do you have any info on who would have worn them?

Try Liverpool Archives they may have some info or even St. John's Archives. Anyway I'll keep my eye on you.

Good luck

Tony

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  • 2 weeks later...

Rolfi,

Like Tony, I have been keeping an eye on your post hopeing someone could add some information.

My interest being in Liverpool and WW1

You appear to know more than anyone else already and I wonder if you could tell us how you know the hospital was at Waterloo, Liverpool.The name Hotel Dieu seems rather strange and I wonder about the french connection in north Liverpool ?

P.B.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Thanks everyone, you've not been ignored.

the text under the flags is...

MONASTERE DE N.D. D'ESPERANCE

(Monastery of Our Lady Of Hope).

The hospital still stands, as a guest house, still run by nuns.

Will post more after some digging in the local archives; assuming I find anything worth posting.

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Rolfi

On 30th October I sent a letter to the main hospital in Ontario, Canada, with illustrations of the badge and arm band asking for any information that they may have and what connection, if any, they had with Liverpool. Still waiting a reply.

Tony

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  • 2 weeks later...

Rolfi

Reply from Canada:-

Mr. Murphy, we received your letter regarding insignias from World War 1 with Hotel Dieu on it. We had this reviewed at our Sister’s House in Amherstview, Ontario who have extensive archives. They were not able to find anything and felt they were not associated with Liverpool, Lancashire.

We hope you are successful in finding information from other sources.

Beverley Carty

Executive Assistant to the Executive Director and

Associate Executive Director and CNE

Hotel Dieu Hospital

166 Brock St.

Kingston, Ontario

K7L 5G2

613-544-3400, Ext. 2229

FAX 613-544-8333

E-Mail: cartyb@hdh.kari.net

So no luck there one of those irritating WW I mysteries. Have you enquired at Park House to see if they have any info on their past history?

Cheers.

Tony

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What a pity the enquiry did not produce anything. The shoulder title to me looks more like a Boer war item than WW1 but the crossed flags on the arm badge certainly seem to indicate WW1.The title is nothing like any of the selection of VAD titles shown in Westlake " Collecting Metal Shoulder Titles "

Does anyone with an interest in the VADs have any suggestions, where they not administered by the County T.F. Association. The original owner of the title and arm band presumably was part of one of the VAD units administered by the West Lancs County Asociation ?

P.B.

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An internet search for VAD brings up a number of interesting sites,especially The British Red Cross one, they have a number of personnel records from WW1.

Rolfi ,

Do you have a name for the original owner of these items, the Red Cross might be able to provide futher information.

Peter

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I wonder if the connection was with the Hotel Dieu Hospital in Paris, and not Quebec? I suspect that this was a small privately run home, staffed by nuns who had some French connection, and which later in the war was 'regularised' and taken over by the Joint War Committee. The brassard and titles would have been sourced and issued by the hospital while still private, and worn by the staff as a status symbol, and to signify their connection with war work when in outdoor uniform. The initial post said that it was in the possession of a St. John VAD, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the items had any connection themselves with a VAD Detachment.

Sue

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I may be completely off the mark here, as my French is not what it once was :) , but "Hôtel Dieu" seems to have been a fairly common name for convent-run hospitals in France. A quick rummage through the French hospital lists posted by Jean Riotte on the "Service Santé" subforum at pages14-18.com ( http://pages14-18.mesdiscussions.net/pages...ste_sujet-1.htm ) reveals that there were Hôtels Dieu in Marseille, Lyon, Bourges, Le Creusot, Laon, Abbeville, Lamballe, Tournon and elsewhere, which operated as military hospitals.

Maybe Jean can tell you which was/were run by the sisters/brothers of the Monastere de Notre Dame d'Esperance.

Adrian

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Adrian

Thanks for that, I have copied it for later reference as my letter to Paris is on its way. See what their response is first.

However, you say your French is not what it was; it is obviously better than my non-existing French but if I don't get any joy from Paris I will struggle through it and if I find anything possible I will copy it to my daughter for her to translate.

Cheers

Tony

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  • 1 month later...

Rolfi

Response today from Paris:-

"Dear sir,

We have any informations of a branch of our hospital being established in the U.K. during 1914 1918

Your faithfully

Guyomard Brice

Assistant

Service.communication@htd.aphp.fr"

I assume that they are saying "We don't Have"

The post from apwright suggests that the title "Hotel Dieu" was in fairly general use regarding religious orders. Forgive my ignorance but could the term Hotel Dieu be interpreted as "God's House"?

Anyway Rolfi I am out of suggestions but I would certainly be interested if you do come up with a solution.

All the best

Tony

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  • 2 weeks later...

The Antiques Road Show tonight from St.Georges Hall Liverpool featured a collection of Red Cross Material collected by a member of the the Formby Branch some of it dating back to WW1 and before.

As I understand that the Red Cross and St.Johns had a connection during WW1, I wonder if it might be worth contacting The Formby Red Cross branch to see if they have ever heard of the " Hotel Dieu", Formby being "just up the road".

P.B.

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  • 11 months later...

Rolfi

Did you ever solve the mystery of the origins of your armband and shoulder title or is it still one of those irritating unsolved mysteries?

Tony

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