Jump to content
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

The Scottish War Graves Project


DMcNay
 Share

Recommended Posts

I thought that, in light of recent discussions, I would post the announcement I made this afternoon on the Scottish War Memorials Forum:

scottishwargraves.jpg

We are pleased to announce the launch of The Scottish War Graves Project.

The project was decided upon following the apparent demise of the British War Memorial Project, and following several discussions on graves which fell outside the remit of the Scottish War Memorials Forum.

It will focus upon the graves of military personnel buried or commemorated in cemeteries and burial grounds within Scotland, and will cover all periods of history, whether it be the World Wars of the 20th Century, the minor colonial conflicts of the 18th and 19th, or modern conflicts such as the Falklands War or actions in Iraq or Afghanistan.

The Scottish War Graves Project will use the same forum-based format which the Scottish War Memorials Forum currently uses. This makes it simple for anyone to join in and submit photographs or information.

While there is a lot of work to be done, and many graves and burials are yet to go online, we decided to launch early in order to attract many new contributors who will be able to help in our cause of recording all these military burials.

We hope to see many of you there, and hope you will be able to help emulate the success of the Scottish War Memorials Forum.

Click here to visit The Scottish War Graves Project

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The project was decided upon following the apparent demise of the British War Memorial Project, and following several discussions on graves which fell outside the remit of the Scottish War Memorials Forum

An interesting venture, but, the BWMP hasn't folded, the name has but it is coming back under a different name.

I just feel that it's going to be duplicating what has already been done.

I'm not knocking it, good luck!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All these comings and goings, veiled hints and semi accusations. Mysterious allusions as to what may or may not be about to happen. " I'd love to tell you but ...." does nothing for the confidence of the interested onlooker or contributer who happens to be outside the magic circle. Not to mention the impression it may give to a newcomer wondering whether to get involved or not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All these comings and goings, veiled hints and semi accusations. Mysterious allusions as to what may or may not be about to happen. " I'd love to tell you but ...." does nothing for the confidence of the interested onlooker or contributer who happens to be outside the magic circle. Not to mention the impression it may give to a newcomer wondering whether to get involved or not.

This is the site referred to.

http://www.wargraves.org.uk/

I am in total agreement with truthergw. One of my concerns about wargraves projects is simply clarity. To expand further, what are the "rules of engagement" and what is the specific policy of distribution of photos. The previous sentences represent the tip of the iceberg compared to what has come out in the past two years (for me anyway).

I did read that the "new" site (under a "new" name perhaps) will allow people to upload their own photos and bios. This is what FindAGrave has been doing for over a decade. I mention this, on this specific occasion, as Mr. Bagshaw has mentioned that word that pops up regularly....duplication.

Why create another web site that has these very offerings to the public?

The previous question was laid forth to make a point that the very criticisms of other sites are about to be performed on this "new" site. I will not lose a wink of sleep knowing that this site comes back "better than ever" or anything of the kind. Call me sensitive or picky, call me anything, but it irks me to be the target of mis-leading statements.

Load the site, make the site known to everyone, and let's all get back into the cemeteries and the town centers and photograph headstones and memorials and get them on the web. More importantly, if someone asks for a copy of the photo, JUST GIVE IT TO THEM.

Off my soapbox and back to uploading.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can someone who knows nothing about these sites ask a simple question, because there is something I can never quite figure out? If you find that one of these sites has the photo you want, do you have to pay for it? If you do pay for it, who does the money go to? The site owner, the project in general, expenses for the volunteers?

Also, if you are someone who uploads a photo are you handing over all rights to that photo to the site owner to do what they want with it, sell it etc?

I don't know any of the people involved in these sites, and this is a genuine question, so let's not start any flame wars, please.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No-one any idea about this then?

Paul,

The most accurate and precise answers would come from those who control the various projects. The projects vary so there is no standard answer. I can only speak for the project I created. http://www.findagrave.com/iwpp . FindAGrave was gracious in giving us space on their web site to explain the projects purpose. No fees, no donations, just cooperating with those who are interested and those who request a photo.

As for the others it would be best for them to come forward and explain their position.

Steve Rogers submitted this early this morning (USA EST).

The War Graves Project?

Dear All

Further to my update last month I am pleased to be able to forward some good news with regard to the proposed ‘Alliance’ to work closer with the Commonwealth War Graves Commission (CWGC).

As you are aware I had arranged a meeting with the CWGC in Maidenhead to try and work out a way head for us to work in conjunction with them to fulfil the requirements of both organisations.

My Aims were to:

1. Give the CWGC a copy of the graves and memorials we have accumulated so far.

2. Discuss a process where we can continue, via our team of volunteers, to photograph war graves and memorials but to be recognised as a team working ‘In Association’ with the CWGC.

3. Discuss a process where we can help in fulfilling requests. Although fulfilling photographic requests is not the ‘core’ role of the CWGC they are aware that there is a ‘need’ these days.

I met with Peter Francis the Media and Publicity Manager who was the initial point of contact and then discussed with David Parker, Director of Information and Secretariat, various aspects about how we, as a team, might help in joining forces. The day concluded with an hour long Power Point presentation, which I had been preparing over the last few weeks, to the Director General Richard Kellaway CBE and his Deputy Tim Reeves who would determine if it was feasible for the proposals to go ahead.

What was agreed:

• They would accept the images to date.

• They would like us to run their ‘Photo request’ service via a stand alone website and in the short term will put a ‘request photo’ button on their casualty page which will direct to us. In the long term they will endeavour to get the images onto the casualty page so that they are visible in the first instance.

• They will provide us with a copy of their archived images so if we have not completed a cemetery, and they have, we can use it.

• They will try and help us getting images in locations we cannot get to by use of their network.

• They agreed that we can use their ‘torch’ logo on the home page and the words ‘In Association with the CWGC’ to show this allegiance. They will also promote us as the preferred provider of images for those that request them.

• They do not want MoD graves (yet) or family memorials therefore it was agreed that these will be displayed on the stand alone site.

• To cover all eventualities, Volunteers will be members of our project and NOT be ‘working for or representing the CWGC’ .

• They have offered to send someone to the Bletchley Park meeting to show ‘allegiance’.

Therefore, quite a productive day in which I was very pleased to feel that the efforts of us all have been recognised as being of great importance to not only ourselves but to the Commission and Commonwealth as a whole!!

_______________

How the final details of Steve Rogers organization comes together is yet to be seen but I for one will support this approach enthusiastically.

I wish I could shed more light on the matter as you requested but I would be speaking out of turn in that facet. Perhaps others will come forward and explain their endeavors further.

Cheers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Paul

I've no experience with other sites, but the one now recently defunct did not charge for providing a photo but did ask for a donation. I recall folk getting quite peeved in a thread some months back when there were suggestions that it was all intended as a money-spinner.

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

An interesting venture, but, the BWMP hasn't folded, the name has but it is coming back under a different name.

I just feel that it's going to be duplicating what has already been done.

I'm not knocking it, good luck!!

I have to respectfully diagree with yourpoint about duplication. We are aiming to cover all military graves in Scotland. Today I photographed a man of the 5th Dragoon Guards who died when the boat he was on sank in 1838. This grave wouldn't be covered by the BWMP.

We also aim to cover every nationality buried in Scotland. The BWMP did not (and I presume will not in whatever guise it reappears in) cover nationalities such as Canadian, Australian, Polish, Dutch, Indian, even German.

Some of the nationalities are indeed covered by other projects. Some aren't however, and we will record them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can someone who knows nothing about these sites ask a simple question, because there is something I can never quite figure out? If you find that one of these sites has the photo you want, do you have to pay for it? If you do pay for it, who does the money go to? The site owner, the project in general, expenses for the volunteers?

As far as the Scottish War Graves Project is concerned, if a photograph is on our site, you are free to save acopy from there.

If you want a higher-resolution copy, you are free to send a private message to the poster of the photograph, and request it be emailed to you.

The only possible cost would be if you wanted a "hard-copy" print of the photograph. And then the only cost would be developing and mailing.

There will be no profit whatsoever made from photographs on the Scottish War Graves Project while I am in charge.

Also, if you are someone who uploads a photo are you handing over all rights to that photo to the site owner to do what they want with it, sell it etc?

A fair question, I feel. As far as I am concerned, I have put my photographs in the public domain. They are free for anyone to use, provided they pay the courtesy of asking me first. I stated that of my photographs on the Scottish War Memorials Forum, and that has not changed.

I hope that everyone else contributing to the Scottish War Graves Project is of the same opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The BWMP did not (and I presume will not in whatever guise it reappears in) cover nationalities such as Canadian, Australian, Polish, Dutch, Indian, even German.

May i point out that the BWMP did cover the majority of the above nationalities, the exception being Dutch, and of course they covered the South Africans and New Zealanders aswell.

I know someone who is in the middle of photographing Cannock Chase German Cemetery for the project, me and a friend have just done the Indian Memorial at Neuve Chappelle, the Canadian Vimy Memorial and Villers Brett Australian to name but a few.

However, i agree that 1838 wouldn't be covered but have to ask why is it under the Scottish War Graves Project??

Don't get me wrong, i'm not knocking what you are doing but there are now so many sites doing the same thing. The Canadians by the Maple Leaf Legacy, the Australian project, the New Zealand Armed Forces project and the South African Projects, plus Gary Nelson's.

That's about 8 sites all doing more or less the same thing

Link to comment
Share on other sites

May i point out that the BWMP did cover the majority of the above nationalities, the exception being Dutch, and of course they covered the South Africans and New Zealanders aswell.

I'm confused by that becasue when I volunteered, the list I was given for a particular cemetery ommited the Canadian graves.

However, i agree that 1838 wouldn't be covered but have to ask why is it under the Scottish War Graves Project??

The term "War Graves" is perhaps misleading. We're covering all military graves.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not knocking what you are doing but there are now so many sites doing the same thing. The Canadians by the Maple Leaf Legacy, the Australian project, the New Zealand Armed Forces project and the South African Projects, plus Gary Nelson's.

That's about 8 sites all doing more or less the same thing

I disagree slightly. The Canadian site is covering graves of Canadians, the Australian project is covering Australians and so on.

For most (not all) of these projects they cover the Great War and World War Two.

We're covering both World Wars, plus every conflict before and after, plus every other military related grave we find. We're doing this as it's the early stages of a major Scottish genealogical project some of us have been discussing for some weeks now.

PLUS...unlike many sites, the photos will be there, online, free for anyone who wants it to use it. That is something I would hope other projects would emulate. I haven't seen it so far, although I am open to contradiction on that.

I'm sure you're not knocking it, but you obviously have an interest in another project and of course will seek to put that one above all others...as I am obviously doing with my own.

This thread is to announce our project, not to discuss whether it has merit or not.

I'm disappointed to have to do this, but I wanted to announce our project, and I have done so. I'm closing this thread before anyone thinks of starting an argument

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...