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AUSTRALIANS - HORGAN OR HOGAN BROTHERS


ckop4
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Hi All,

While working on extracts from our local newspaper, the Cork Examiner, here in Cork, Ireland, I came across the following two death notices dated 26/6/1917-

HORGAN - Killed in action in France on May 14th, 1917, James Horgan, Australian Imperial Force, third son of the late Patrick Horgan, Bishopstown, Cork, aged 22 years. Deeply regretted.

HORGAN - Killed in action in France on June 7th, 1917, Michael Horgan, Australian Imperial Force, eldest son of the late Patrick Horgan, Bishopstowns, Cork, aged 30 years. Deeply regretted. R.I.P.

I checked CWGC for further details but there are no AIF Horgans listed as killed in 1917. So I checked under 'Hogan' - the surnames Horgan and Hogan are often mixed up - and came back with these two possibilities for a 'J. Hogan'

5 HOGAN, JAMES Corporal 3767 15/04/1917 24 Australian Infantry, A.I.F. Australian IX. D. 11. CABARET-ROUGE BRITISH CEMETERY, SOUCHEZ

6 HOGAN, J Private 6039 03/05/1917 Unknown Australian Infantry, A.I.F. Australian Sp. Mem. B. 7. QUEANT ROAD CEMETERY, BUISSY

5 HOGAN, JAMES Corporal proved to be Australian-born and with different parents.

6 HOGAN, J Private is a possibility but the date does not tally with the newspaper.

And so checking for a Michael 'Hogan' CWGC came back with -

Name: HOGAN, MICHAEL

Initials: M

Nationality: Australian

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Australian Infantry, A.I.F.

Unit Text: 38th Bn.

Date of Death: between 07/06/1917 and 09/06/1917

Service No: 2579

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 7 - 17 - 23 - 25 - 27 - 29 - 31.

Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL

The details for this man seems to me to be a match for 'Michael Horgan' - I wonder what you all think?

And also would it be possible to confirm the surname from Australian records?

JPC

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JPC, Have you checked the Australian Army Service records site ? just found 3767 Hogan in two minutes. Ralph.

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JPC, Have you checked the Australian Army Service records site ? just found 3767 Hogan in two minutes. Ralph.

I'll take a look, thanks rjaydee

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6039 James Hogan 19/3 Bn AIF , joined 21-02-16 aged 24, 6/12 years KIA 03-05-17 NOK Miss Norah Hogan Bishoptown County Cork.

also his Brother

2579 Michael Hogan 38th Bn, 5th Reiforcements AIF joined 18-09-16 aged 30, 11/12 years KIA 07/09-07-17

Service records for both on line at NAA, 45 pages each

All the best

Wull

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6039 James Hogan 19/3 Bn AIF , joined 21-02-16 aged 24, 6/12 years KIA 03-05-17 NOK Miss Norah Hogan Bishoptown County Cork.

also his Brother

2579 Michael Hogan 38th Bn, 5th Reiforcements AIF joined 18-09-16 aged 30, 11/12 years KIA 07/09-07-17

Service records for both on line at NAA, 45 pages each

All the best

Wull

Thanks Wull, just working my way through James Hogan/Horgan's service record as we speak. He signed his name as Hogan but there is a letter in his file pointing out that his name is actually Horgan. Perhaps the family did not want to make a fuss. These Australian records are wonderful. JPC

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This is the direct link to the service records:

http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/imagine.as...mp;I=1&SE=1

http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/imagine.as...mp;I=1&SE=1

Australian War Memorial Links:

http://www.awm.gov.au/roh/person.asp?p=145-25696

http://www.awm.gov.au/roh/person.asp?p=145-25710

CWGC

Name: HOGAN, MICHAEL

Initials: M

Nationality: Australian

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Australian Infantry, A.I.F.

Unit Text: 38th Bn.

Date of Death: between 07/06/1917 and 09/06/1917

Service No: 2579

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 7 - 17 - 23 - 25 - 27 - 29 - 31.

Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL

Name: HOGAN

Initials: J

Nationality: Australian

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Australian Infantry, A.I.F.

Unit Text: 3rd Bn.

Date of Death: 03/05/1917

Service No: 6039

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Sp. Mem. B. 7.

Cemetery: QUEANT ROAD CEMETERY, BUISSY

Bright Blessings

Sandra

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Sorry ... forgot the Embarkation Roll (this will give you a bit more information)

http://www.awm.gov.au/nominalrolls/ww1/emb...on.asp?p=167566

http://www.awm.gov.au/nominalrolls/ww1/emb...on.asp?p=316360

Bright Blessings

Sandra

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Thanks for your help, Sandra.

It seems that the brother's proper surname was Horgan but for whatever reason they enlisted as Hogan. James, listed his brother Michael as next-of-kin, and when he was KIA, his effects went to Michael's last known address in Sydney. Of course Michael too was dead by then, MIA, so the effects went to a James Hyde at that address. But before Michael was killed, he made out a Will leaving everything to James Hyde. James Hyde contacted the military authorities and in his letters pointed out that the family surname was Horgan, not Hogan, and the next-of-kin was the sister in Bishopstown, Cork, Ireland.

Sad to see that both Horgan brothers landed in France seperately in late 1916 and were both dead as Hogans in the space of a few months. I will seek out James' grave and Michael's name on the Menin Gate next visit.

I am wondering now if I might make contact with the relevants and get the surname corrected? How does a person go about this with Australian soldiers? JPC

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JPC ...

You would need to contact the Department Of Veteran's Affairs and they will advise you of who to contact directly.

I didn't check through the entire record of the boys but did notice on one of them (last page where medals etc are noted) that James Hyde enquired about an allotment.

Bright Blessings

Sandra

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JPC ...

You would need to contact the Department Of Veteran's Affairs and they will advise you of who to contact directly.

I didn't check through the entire record of the boys but did notice on one of them (last page where medals etc are noted) that James Hyde enquired about an allotment.

Bright Blessings

Sandra

Sandra,

After sleeping on it, I think that I might add the brothers to my long finger list until I finish my extracts. And yes, I did see that James Hyde was enquiring about an 'allotment' but I have no idea what that means. My next task now is to try and find out what the 3rd and 38th Battalions were doing when the brothers were killed. JPC

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The allotment would be a pension paid on the death of the soldier ... usually to parent or spouse.

The unit diaries are slowly coming on line but as yet only the Light Horse has been done.

Bean's official history will give you some of the answers ...

Bright Blessings

Sandra

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My next task now is to try and find out what the 3rd and 38th Battalions were doing when the brothers were killed. JPC

Hi JPC

Following is just a little info on the 38th Battalion around the time of Michael's death:

Michael Hogan, 2579 – 38th Bn, 10th Bde, 3rd Div. KIA 7 – 9/6/1917.

The 38th Battalion took part in the Battle for Messines Ridge, 7th to the 12th June 1917. Zero hour was set for 3.10am on the 7th. Just before zero hour the Germans hit the 3rd Division with a gas attack, costing them over 2000 casualties before their own advance began. At 3.10am mines were blown under the German positions, and due to the chaos caused, the 38th, as one of the leading battalions, had no trouble reaching their objective of the enemy’s forward line. However, some men became casualties when they advanced too quickly into their own barrage.

A couple of hours later the 38th were digging in at the crest of the ridge, preparing for a counter attack, and only played a minor role in the following advance.

When the War Diaries come on-line - hopefully we'll find out a lot more.

Cheers, Frev

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Thank you for that Frev. Michael Ho®gan was stated to be missing between the 7th and the 9th, chaos indeed. JPC

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Just as a matter of interest my name is PATRICK HORGAN but I have no idea whether the CORK Horgans mentioned are related to me but my father was Patrick Horgan from Cork

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Just as a matter of interest my name is PATRICK HORGAN but I have no idea whether the CORK Horgans mentioned are related to me but my father was Patrick Horgan from Cork

Hi Patrick, well, James is listed as the third son of Patrick Horgan and Michael as the eldest but there is no mention of the second son and the next of kin is the sister at home in Bishopstown, Cork. Horgan is not a very common surname, which is probably why it often gets mixed up with Hogan - maybe its time you looked up the family tree?!!! JPC

BTW, did your father serve in WWI?

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Hi jpc.

My father was born in 1918 so no he wouldnt have served. He lived in a village called Milford in North West Cork 2 miles from the Limerick border. As far as I am aware he had only one brother WILLIAM but both are now dead.

I havn't yet made any attempt to do a family tree for my irish family mainly lack of time but also I understand its not so easy to do n Ireland? What part of Cork are you from

Patrick

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  • 6 years later...
Guest Daisydoc

Hello,

I'm not sure if this thread is still 'live' but I only came across it today. The two brothers are James and Michael Horgan and they hailed from Bishopstown and they are my mother's uncles. We know very little about them but we did discover the Australian papers a few years back and that provided my mum with a lot of information she never had before. Finding your thread today was really surprising and interesting. I'm not sure how I didn't come across it before but thanks for filling in a few more gaps.

Daisy

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