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westkent78

23rd (County of London) Battalion, the London Regiment

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westkent78
Matthew, your right, I did post a few mentions of my Grandfathers history on Picklehaubes.com (what's your name on there?) and I'm also on BMF. I have both my Grandfathers service papers and my Great Uncles ... lucky that they survived eh?

Another pair that I have for the 23rd London are to Pte Frederick J Porter 6600. Later with the 21st London as 653090 He was only entitled to the pair. His records, as far as I know have not survived. However, I do have his medals, still in their original box and in the envelope sent to his address, which unfortunatly has been torn off. Along with this grouping I received his 1930 Driving Licence that had his address as 18a Malyons Road, Ladywell, SE13 and a 1947/48 Clothing Book that shows his address as 119, Hurst Road, Sidcup, Kent.

If you have anything further on him I would love to know.

Cheers,

Mike

Mike,

I'm not on Picklehaubes.com, I just found the thread while searching for 23rd London medals to purchase.

He's Frederick James Porter.

I have him attesting 20th/21st July 1916.

I checked the 21st London medal rolls and it looks like he served in 2/23rd:

6600 2a 29.12.16 to 15.6.17

653090 4b 18.6.17 to 23.6.18

1b 30.6.18 to 3.7.18

1a 4.7.18 to 3.2.19.

I'll have to see if I can work out when he may have transferred, but this should keep you going for a while.

Best regards,

Matthew

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Rup
Rupe,

I assume that you have his 1914/15 trio. Are all his medals named to him as 23-Lond? I'll keep my eyes open for any mention of him as I continue my research.

I've been playing around with FreeBMD and I think I have him limited to three candidates, all called Charles.

They are:

Charles Edward Margetts. Birth registered Wandsworth Dec 1892

Charles Ernest Margetts. Birth registered Paddington Dec 1893

Charles Edward Margetts. Birth registered Poplar Jun 1899.

Of the three I'd be inclined to think the Wandsworth candidate is the 23rd man because of recruitment location and the ASC man is Charles Ernest. The Poplar man looks to be too young to be enlisting in 1914 and actually making it to F&F with the battalion.

Of course this is all contingent on his name actually being Margetts and him not using an alias, which may be a possibility if his BWM & VM MIC can't be found.

best regard,

Matthew

Thanks Matthew,yes all medals are named to the 23rd,why might there not be a mic if someone used a alias and medals still issued to the one name?

Regards Rupe.

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westkent78
Thanks Matthew,yes all medals are named to the 23rd,why might there not be a mic if someone used a alias and medals still issued to the one name?

Regards Rupe.

Didn't think that one through fully.

What I was thinking was that there might be a MIC with his pair on it under his real name and his 1914/15 MIC wasn't cross-referenced with it, but the problem this raises is how would his pair have been named Margetts if they knew it was an alias?

I think I've over-complicated this and we have our man, the Wandsworth born Charles Edward Margetts. The Rifle Brigade candidate is a 47783 Charles E. Margetts and he's entitled to a pair. The question now is whether he's our man or the Poplar-born man. A check of the roll should sort this one out.

Andy Pay, can you help on this one (can't pm you as your inbox appears to be full)?

Best regards,

Matthew

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spanner

Referring back to the original request for any information about members of 23 London Regiment, the following may or may not be of interest.

While rumaging through drawers containing items that have been kept for many years I found a black bordered visiting card which was presumably a common item during WW1.

It reads: In Memoriam Lance-Corp W.H. Crew, 1/23 London Regiment, Killed in action on the field. 15th September 1916. Aged 19 years.

To the best of my knowledge Crew is not a family name at maternal, maternal Grandparent level. 1901 census records Wilfred Henry Crew living at 13 Ilderwick rd Stroud Green Hornsey and incorrectly as a 4 year old bank clerk! This address is only a short distance from members of my mother's grandmother's family in 1901, so there is some relevance even if only as an acquaintance, though I do not see how the card would have been kept for so long unless there was quite a strong connection.

Wilfred's Medal card is slightly confusing at it lists him as W H Crew pte 345 2/A cycle corps renumbered L/cpl 7572 23rd ditto ditto. (presumably cycle corps). CWGC has him as 1/23 btn London Reg. KiA 18/9/1916. Thiepval Memorial.

I presume from the date and location this refers to High Wood on 15/9/1916.

Were 23rd Londons a renaming or take over of 23 cycle corps? and who are 2/A cycle corps please?

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westkent78
Referring back to the original request for any information about members of 23 London Regiment, the following may or may not be of interest.

While rumaging through drawers containing items that have been kept for many years I found a black bordered visiting card which was presumably a common item during WW1.

It reads: In Memoriam Lance-Corp W.H. Crew, 1/23 London Regiment, Killed in action on the field. 15th September 1916. Aged 19 years.

To the best of my knowledge Crew is not a family name at maternal, maternal Grandparent level. 1901 census records Wilfred Henry Crew living at 13 Ilderwick rd Stroud Green Hornsey and incorrectly as a 4 year old bank clerk! This address is only a short distance from members of my mother's grandmother's family in 1901, so there is some relevance even if only as an acquaintance, though I do not see how the card would have been kept for so long unless there was quite a strong connection.

Wilfred's Medal card is slightly confusing at it lists him as W H Crew pte 345 2/A cycle corps renumbered L/cpl 7572 23rd ditto ditto. (presumably cycle corps). CWGC has him as 1/23 btn London Reg. KiA 18/9/1916. Thiepval Memorial.

I presume from the date and location this refers to High Wood on 15/9/1916.

Were 23rd Londons a renaming or take over of 23 cycle corps? and who are 2/A cycle corps please?

Very interesting.

Wilfred started out as 345 in the 2nd London Division Cycle Corps and that's who he served with until 22nd May 1916 when he and a couple of his colleagues were transferred to 1/23rd London. 47th Division was the renamed 2nd London Division, of which 1/23rd London was a constituent part.

I've had a look at the medal card and there is some writing underneath "A Cyc Corps which I think the 'ditto' refers to although it doesn't look like Lon. R. I think the clerk made some sort of error with the ditto marks as his medal roll entry only shows service with 2nd Lon.Div. Cyc. Corps and 1/23rd London. I don't think there was anything such as 23 Cycle Corps.

Assuming you have access to Ancestry then Wilfred's papers can be found here

Everything confirms that he died 15 September 1916, most likely in support of the main attack on High Wood or during the evening prior to the 1/23rd's attack the next day.

It looks like his next of kin was Arthur & Alice Crew living at Furzecott, Branksome Rd, Southend on Sea; 70 Norwood Rd, Herne Hill; and 69 Albert Rd, South Norwood if that's any help.

It does appear that at the beginning of the war he was a member of 23rd London as # 2106. I'm not sure why he didn't revert back to this number when he re-joined 1/23rd in 1916.

Thanks for sharing,

Matthew

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Artists Rifles

Hi There

one of my relatives was in the 23rd London Regiment his name was Frank Ruthven. Do you have any info on his service record?

regards

Greg

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spanner

It looks like his next of kin was Arthur & Alice Crew living at Furzecott, Branksome Rd, Southend on Sea; 70 Norwood Rd, Herne Hill; and 69 Albert Rd, South Norwood if that's any help.

Many thanks for that Matthew.

This is certainly the right family, Arthur and Alice are on 1901 and seem to move around quite a lot. I have another address for him taken from his attestation paper as 49 Lodge rd Croydon and I think he signed on at 27(1?) St John's Hill Clapham. Unfortunately I have several notes on one page relating to different people and this may be wrong.

best regards Roy

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westkent78
Hi There

one of my relatives was in the 23rd London Regiment his name was Frank Ruthven. Do you have any info on his service record?

regards

Greg

Hello Greg,

4321 Pte. Frank Leonard Haldane Ruthven (Later 701458)

He attested to the 23rd London on 1st June 1915. He went to France on 22 Jul 1916, about 1 month after most of his battalion, 2/23rd London. On 14th December he arrived in Salonika with his battalion and remained there until 15th June 1917. Arriving in Egypt on the 18th he remained in the Middle East until his arrival back in Italy on 30 Jul 1918 when the battalion were transferred back to the Western Front. He travelled with them back to France and continued to serve there from 4th Jul 1918 until his leaving France 1 Feb 1919.

I've also seen his medals for sale a couple of years ago.

Lot #141 "BWM & Victory to 4321 Pte F L H Ruthven 23rd London Rgt. with matching miniatures. One Kings Crown 23rd London Rgt cap badge, one Kings Crown 23rd London Rgt collar badge, two T23 London shoulder badges (1 damaged), one 1916 On War Service triangular badge, one silver hallmarked Masonic boys medal 1925. Medals all VF." I think I saw them listed on a Corbitt Stamps Ltd website in 2005-2006, but I think they may have gone to Ebay after that.

Do you have any of his biographical details, know what became of him post-war, or have a photo of him?

Best regards,

Matthew

It looks like his next of kin was Arthur & Alice Crew living at Furzecott, Branksome Rd, Southend on Sea; 70 Norwood Rd, Herne Hill; and 69 Albert Rd, South Norwood if that's any help.

Many thanks for that Matthew.

This is certainly the right family, Arthur and Alice are on 1901 and seem to move around quite a lot. I have another address for him taken from his attestation paper as 49 Lodge rd Croydon and I think he signed on at 27(1?) St John's Hill Clapham. Unfortunately I have several notes on one page relating to different people and this may be wrong.

best regards Roy

Roy,

27 St. John's Hill, Clapham was the HQ of 23rd London so that's where he signed.

Best regards,

Matthew

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Artists Rifles

Hi Matthew

thank you so much for your information regarding Frank. As far as I am aware after the war he carried on living in London and his part of my extended family are living not far from Enfield. I haven't got any photos of him but I'll see if there is anybody in the family who does. I have often wondered what he did in the Great War and now I feel I know him a little better. My main interest is in the Artists Rifles but this comes from my old secondary school which use to be their OTC in WW1. We were told all about Wilfred Owen, Edward Thomas etc from the age of 11 and it's something that stuck with me because of Frank and another relative John Stanley who died on HMS Invincible. I've only just managed to find a picture of him. This came from a relative from America of all places.

many thanks

Greg

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Charles 755

Hi Matthew

My grandfather Arthur William Fry served in the 2nd Battalion, 23rd London (nick name The Battersea Boozers) as a Private in communications, Reg. No 2100,700352.

He was born on 16th March 1896 at 35 Warwick Street, Westminster and joined in 1914 while living at home at 36 Brodrick Road, Wandsworth. He served the full 4 years and died on 18Th December 1966 in Ashvale Surrey.

If you have any information about him it would be gratefully appreciated, as I only have a copy of his Medal Roll Card. I think he was seriously wounded at some stage during the War.

I have been reading The 23rd London Regiment 1798-1919 compiled from contributions by former Officers of The Regiment, so I have some knowledge of their history.

Charles 755

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stubblejumper

Hi Matthew

Just received the following medals to

6852/703125 Pte Charles E Warren 1/23 London Regt : MM (gazetted 13/3/1918,BWM & VM & Def Medal & Special Constabulary Medal. Who according to his Mic also saw service at a later date with the Royal Irish Fusiliers.Also there is no mention of his 70 number on Mic (clerical error?).Have checked either side of his 70 number on ancestry and they are 23 Londons.

Had a look on 1901 Census and found a Charles Warren born 1893 at Blakeney Hitchings,Gloshire.Blakeney is also mentioned in the Gazette so hopefully the same man.

Would he have been working in London when he signed up?

Regards

Brian

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westkent78
Hi Matthew

My grandfather Arthur William Fry served in the 2nd Battalion, 23rd London (nick name The Battersea Boozers) as a Private in communications, Reg. No 2100,700352.

He was born on 16th March 1896 at 35 Warwick Street, Westminster and joined in 1914 while living at home at 36 Brodrick Road, Wandsworth. He served the full 4 years and died on 18Th December 1966 in Ashvale Surrey.

If you have any information about him it would be gratefully appreciated, as I only have a copy of his Medal Roll Card. I think he was seriously wounded at some stage during the War.

I have been reading The 23rd London Regiment 1798-1919 compiled from contributions by former Officers of The Regiment, so I have some knowledge of their history.

Charles 755

Hello Charles,

Thank you for that additional information.

It doesn't look like his service papers have survived and his dates in the various theatres seem to conform to what I'd expect to see for a 2/23rd man so when he was wounded he wasn't sent back to England and when he recovered he went straight back to the unit.

He would have attested for the 23rd on 12th/13th August 1914.

His medal roll entry indicates:

1a 26.6.16 to 3.12.16 (France)

2a 14.12.16 to 15.6.17 (Salonika)

4a 18.6.17 to 23.6.18 (Egypt)

1b 30.6.18 to 3.7.18 (Italy)

1a 4.7.18 to 10.1.19 (France)

That's the second time I've hear a reference to "Battersea Boozers"- do you know where that nickname comes from and if it refers just to 2/23rd or the whole regiment? I know that the 23rd appears to have been a 'local' battalion for Battersea- at least in the initial recruits.

best regards,

Matthew

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westkent78
Hi Matthew

Just received the following medals to

6852/703125 Pte Charles E Warren 1/23 London Regt : MM (gazetted 13/3/1918,BWM & VM & Def Medal & Special Constabulary Medal. Who according to his Mic also saw service at a later date with the Royal Irish Fusiliers.Also there is no mention of his 70 number on Mic (clerical error?).Have checked either side of his 70 number on ancestry and they are 23 Londons.

Had a look on 1901 Census and found a Charles Warren born 1893 at Blakeney Hitchings,Gloshire.Blakeney is also mentioned in the Gazette so hopefully the same man.

Would he have been working in London when he signed up?

Regards

Brian

Brian,

That was a great group which you won. I thought long and hard about bidding myself.

Warren would have originally enlisted into the 2/5th Queen's and would have been transferred to 23rd London while still in the UK on 28th August 1916. He may also have been part of 69th Provisional Battalion. He and a batch of ex-2/5th Queen's were sent to 1/23rd on 31st August, entering France the next day. I'm not exactly sure how men from the Bristol and Gloucestershire area ended up in a Surrey Territorial Regiment but most of his colleagues that I've identified so far who transferred to 1/23rd by this route were from the Southwest.

There is a slight possibility that he was able to join the battalion on 3rd September (37 men) but it is significantly more likely that he joined on 22nd September (306 men) as part of the replacements for the heavy losses of 15th-19th September. Most of the papers for his colleagues from 5th Queen's all indicate they didn't make it to 1/23rd until 22nd September.

I wouldn't worry about the lack of 7***** number. He definitely won his M.M. with 1/23rd as he's listed in the 47th Division history with a date of award of 29th December 1917. I don't think this date refers to the action where he earned his MM though as the battalion was in training that day. According to the Divisional History 14 MMs and 1 Bar were awarded to the battalion in the period 28th-29th December 1917 and I'd assume that they were all awarded for actions in the Bourlon Wood operation earlier in December.

I haven't seen the Royal Irish Fusiliers' rolls so I don't know when he transferred, but he wasn't alone in going this route. I wonder if he was wounded/sick and then grabbed from a Depot before he could return to 1/23rd?

I think he may be Charles Edward Warren, birth registered Mar Qtr 1893 in Westbury South (6a 247).

Hope this helps flesh out his service. Please let me know of anything else you find out about him.

Best regards,

Matthew

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stubblejumper
Brian,

That was a great group which you won. I thought long and hard about bidding myself.

Warren would have originally enlisted into the 2/5th Queen's and would have been transferred to 23rd London while still in the UK on 28th August 1916. He may also have been part of 69th Provisional Battalion. He and a batch of ex-2/5th Queen's were sent to 1/23rd on 31st August, entering France the next day. I'm not exactly sure how men from the Bristol and Gloucestershire area ended up in a Surrey Territorial Regiment but most of his colleagues that I've identified so far who transferred to 1/23rd by this route were from the Southwest.

There is a slight possibility that he was able to join the battalion on 3rd September (37 men) but it is significantly more likely that he joined on 22nd September (306 men) as part of the replacements for the heavy losses of 15th-19th September. Most of the papers for his colleagues from 5th Queen's all indicate they didn't make it to 1/23rd until 22nd September.

I wouldn't worry about the lack of 7***** number. He definitely won his M.M. with 1/23rd as he's listed in the 47th Division history with a date of award of 29th December 1917. I don't think this date refers to the action where he earned his MM though as the battalion was in training that day. According to the Divisional History 14 MMs and 1 Bar were awarded to the battalion in the period 28th-29th December 1917 and I'd assume that they were all awarded for actions in the Bourlon Wood operation earlier in December.

I haven't seen the Royal Irish Fusiliers' rolls so I don't know when he transferred, but he wasn't alone in going this route. I wonder if he was wounded/sick and then grabbed from a Depot before he could return to 1/23rd?

I think he may be Charles Edward Warren, birth registered Mar Qtr 1893 in Westbury South (6a 247).

Hope this helps flesh out his service. Please let me know of anything else you find out about him.

Best regards,

Matthew

Matthew

Thanks very much for putting some more meat on the medals to C.E.Warren.

On the Ancestry census his parents are Sidney A Warren and Sank? (possibly Sarah) Ann Warren.Blakeney is 7 or 8 miles south of Westbury.Then in later life he moves to soudley near Littledean which is west of Westbury and becomes a Special Constable in Ruspidge.So didnt move around to much after WW1.

Have got a copy of his ancestry Mic and his number for the Ry Irish Fusiliers is 45827 and he was awarded a SWB roll B/1286.

Should be getting Picture of him in Specials Uniform from a friend on here but not til early next year.When i do will send you a copy

Regards

Brian

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geraint

Hi Matthew

Local research here indicates a Pte Harold Charles Jones 2508 of 20, Castle St, Ruthin had joined The County of London (Welsh) 23rd Territorials. Killed at Ypres 25 May 1915. Son of a local rector, worked in a London bank, prominent with London welsh community and at St Bennet's Welsh Church. Chose to join the ranks, but his commission as a Lieutenant with his native 4th RWF TF came through two days after his death. Both his friend W Lavender (serving with him) and Capt John Thornhill wrote to his mother.

Relevant to you?

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westkent78
Should be getting Picture of him in Specials Uniform from a friend on here but not til early next year.When i do will send you a copy

Regards

Brian

Thanks Brian. Looking forward to seeing the picture.

Best regards,

Matthew

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westkent78
Hi Matthew

Local research here indicates a Pte Harold Charles Jones 2508 of 20, Castle St, Ruthin had joined The County of London (Welsh) 23rd Territorials. Killed at Ypres 25 May 1915. Son of a local rector, worked in a London bank, prominent with London welsh community and at St Bennet's Welsh Church. Chose to join the ranks, but his commission as a Lieutenant with his native 4th RWF TF came through two days after his death. Both his friend W Lavender (serving with him) and Capt John Thornhill wrote to his mother.

Relevant to you?

Hello Geraint,

Thanks for getting in touch. Definitely relevant.

Harold's papers can be found here.

I think his friend was 2605 Richard Walter Lavender who was later transferred to 616th Labour Company- he joined up the day after Harold. Thornhill was the battalion Adjutant at the time and 4th RWF were the 47th Division's Pioneer Bn. I'd like to see a transcription of those letters (or photos) if possible please.

I haven't noticed a strong Welsh contingent in the 23rd London- at least until much later in the war when they received drafts from the Welch Regt, and this is the first I've seen of (Welsh) in the title of the regiment. Where did you find that information?

Best regards,

Matthew

Been admiring your avatar. (We have a Blenheim and a Tri-colour in the family)

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geraint

Matthew

Thanks for the additional info. That really is the beauty of this forum - information flows both ways!

Regarding Harold Charles Jones. The two letters had extracts printed in the local paper The Denbighshire Free Press a few weeks after his death at Ypres. They printed gobbets as opposed to the full letters. I've transcripted them fully as follows

W Lavender (undoubtedly the same as noted by you)

"There was heavy fighting and heavy shrapnel prior to the attack. At 6.30pm we attacked, our platoon leading. It was not the initial charge that killed him, but what happened later. When we took the first German trench we had to build barricades like lightning, for we were being mown down by machine gun fire and shrapnel from in front, and rifle fire from all over. He, like others, died there."

Capt John Thornhill

"He was popular, gentle and of a kind disposition.... He was buried on the field of battle, close to the place that he fell, with the officers and men of his battalion that fought with him that day."

I believe that the Welsh connection developed in early 1915. The 15th (London Welsh) RWF was traditionally associated with Welshmen living in London. With their embarkation to France, a few others became associated with the London Welsh - including the 23rd London. The fact that he had applied to be gazetted to the 4th RWF (Denbighshires) his local home battalion would indicate a course of action taken by similar middle class lads of Welsh extraction living in London in 1914.

If anything crops up - I'll contact you again - and if you stumble across a connection with RWF (4th) it would be appreciated!

The battalion's title (Welsh) as quoted in the paper "The County of London (Welsh) 23rd Territorials"

Smut the dog sends his regards.

Geraint

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Steve Wheeler

Dear Westkent78

I'm new to this site and have found it enormously interesting.

I have a picture postcard of my grandfather and a comrade that was sent to his mother from France around 1915, we think.The badge on his cap is a little indistinct but I believe it to be the 23rd.The text is faded on the reverse that is why its only an approximate date. We do not have his service number either. Not a lot to go on really. There is very little information within the family about his service as he did'nt talk too much about it and his medals are long gone. He died in 1980 but we believe he went in under age as so many did.

His name was Frederick A. Wheeler from the Brentford area of West London any help you can give would be very gratefully recieved, I will scan the photo and send it to you as soon as I can get my machine working.

Thank you.

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westkent78

Hello Steve,

I think he is 6875 Pte. Frederick Arthur Wheeler. He was later re-numbered in 1917 as 703143.

We can get a fair idea of his career from some of his colleagues.

He would have originally joined 5th Bn The Queen's Regt , probably sometime in late 1914 - not sure what his Queen's number would have been. On 18th Jun 1915 he would have probably been posted to 69th Provisional Bn and at some point later that year posted back to 2/5th Queen's.

On 28th August 1916 he was transferred to 23rd London and was sent to 1/23rd in France, entering there on 1st September 1916. He would have atcually reached the battalion on 22nd September as part of a draft of 306 men- He appears to have remained with 1/23rd until 31st March 1918 when it looks like he left France. He returned to France on 22nd October 1918 and left on 24th January 1919 for demobilization. So it looks like he was particularly lucky to survive the 1916 and 1917 battles that the 1/23rd were involved in but I would imagine he was probably wounded 21st-26th March 1918.

There is a good possibility that his papers have survived in WO 393 (Service Papers on Ancestry) as many of the papers from his colleagues in the batch of men from 2/5th Queen's have survived, but it will probably be a while before they appear online.

Hope this helps and I look forward to seeing his photo in due course.

Best regards,

Matthew

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Steve Wheeler
Hello Steve,

I think he is 6875 Pte. Frederick Arthur Wheeler. He was later re-numbered in 1917 as 703143.

We can get a fair idea of his career from some of his colleagues.

He would have originally joined 5th Bn The Queen's Regt , probably sometime in late 1914 - not sure what his Queen's number would have been. On 18th Jun 1915 he would have probably been posted to 69th Provisional Bn and at some point later that year posted back to 2/5th Queen's.

On 28th August 1916 he was transferred to 23rd London and was sent to 1/23rd in France, entering there on 1st September 1916. He would have atcually reached the battalion on 22nd September as part of a draft of 306 men- He appears to have remained with 1/23rd until 31st March 1918 when it looks like he left France. He returned to France on 22nd October 1918 and left on 24th January 1919 for demobilization. So it looks like he was particularly lucky to survive the 1916 and 1917 battles that the 1/23rd were involved in but I would imagine he was probably wounded 21st-26th March 1918.

There is a good possibility that his papers have survived in WO 393 (Service Papers on Ancestry) as many of the papers from his colleagues in the batch of men from 2/5th Queen's have survived, but it will probably be a while before they appear online.

Hope this helps and I look forward to seeing his photo in due course.

Best regards,

Matthew

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Steve Wheeler

Dear Westkent78

Thank you very much for your speedy reply, my Grandfathers middle name was Amos, its a possibility it was changed but i can't say for sure. Any other avenues to try ? fantastic job you're doing though

Many regards

Steve W

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westkent78

Steve,

It's probably not too likely that he changed his middle name. It doesn't look like he would have been in the 23rd London as I haven't come across any other Frederick Wheeler in the regiment.

There is a Frederick A. Wheeler who served as 22094 in East Surrey Regt. who may be the next candidate to research as the 23rd London were affiliated with the East Surreys and their badges were similar.

There is also a Frederick Wheeler who served as 6396 London Regt before transferring as A/200321 K.R.R.C. I can't work out which battalion of the London Regt he may have belonged to but I can see it wasn't any of the following (1, 4, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 21, 22, 24, 28) which narrows it down a bit, and leaves open the possibility that this Frederick Wheeler was 23rd London. A look at the K.R.R.C. medal roll should provide the answer.

I'd suggest starting a new thread and including a scan of the picture if you can. I'm not very good with identifying uniforms and badges but there are many on the forum who can help.

Good luck finding him,

Matthew

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Steve Wheeler
Steve,

It's probably not too likely that he changed his middle name. It doesn't look like he would have been in the 23rd London as I haven't come across any other Frederick Wheeler in the regiment.

There is a Frederick A. Wheeler who served as 22094 in East Surrey Regt. who may be the next candidate to research as the 23rd London were affiliated with the East Surreys and their badges were similar.

There is also a Frederick Wheeler who served as 6396 London Regt before transferring as A/200321 K.R.R.C. I can't work out which battalion of the London Regt he may have belonged to but I can see it wasn't any of the following (1, 4, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 21, 22, 24, 28) which narrows it down a bit, and leaves open the possibility that this Frederick Wheeler was 23rd London. A look at the K.R.R.C. medal roll should provide the answer.

I'd suggest starting a new thread and including a scan of the picture if you can. I'm not very good with identifying uniforms and badges but there are many on the forum who can help.

Good luck finding him,

Matthew

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Steve Wheeler

Thank you very much Matthew, it does seem that the East Surreys is the direction to go.

Once again thank you,your help has been invaluable.

Many regards Steve

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