23rd (County of London) Battalion, the London Regiment

[Gunner 87]

1 hour ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Thank you Gunner 87.

 

The relevant paragraph from  'Yr Herald Cymraeg', of 7th December 1915, page 6 reads:

 

"He went through Battle of Loos (25/9 - 8/10) unscathed, but seems to have fallen victim to a stray shot in early November while carrying dispatches. He was taken to the American Hospital in Etaples (November 4th). At First it was thought that his wound was only slight. Then it was seen that the bullet had sunk into his spine, and despite all medical attention, his life could not be saved, and he died on Tuesday night, 16th of November. He was buried in Etaples cemetery. One of the last to see him alive, and one of the ones who accompanied his remains to their final resting place, was Nurse Owen, daughter of Revd. J. Evans Owen, Llanberis."

 

(Earlier it mentions he joined up in the ranks, even though he was a captain in the school Cadet Corps, and could have earned a commission if he'd waited. This was in keeping with his egalitarian/republican beliefs. He crossed over to France with his regiment 'late last winter', and that he had been in France some 9 months before 'the final call came'.)

 

Thank you Dai Bach y Sowldiwr for the taking the time to translate the article. It really brings home the tragic but all too familiar account of Private John William Parry's final few days. Interestingly, Gladys Noale Owen who, by her address, The Manor Llanberis, N Wales, was almost certainly the Sister that cared for John at Etaples. https://vad.redcross.org.uk/en/Card?sname=owen&hosp=etaples&id=164984&last=true Both John and Glady's were the same age and as Llanberis is a very small village would surely have known of each other. 

Edited 2 March , 2021 by Gunner 87

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

1 hour ago, Gunner 87 said:

Thank you Dai Bach y Sowldiwr for the taking the time to translate the article.

No problem.

Interesting to get the back story behind some of the names on our village memorials.

 

1 hour ago, Gunner 87 said:

Both John and Glady's were the same age and as Llanberis is a very small village would surely have known of each other

Yes undoubtedly.

[Pat Atkins]

Speaking of backstory, I wonder if he was living/working in South London on the outbreak of war? As he joined the (at-this-point-still-very-local TF) battalion late August 1914, I assume he was in some manner local at that point. Not very important, nor perhaps discoverable, but personally I'm interested in the pre- and early-war composition of 23rd Londons (my father's uncle William Atkins - KIA Givenchy - being one of them), and this thread seems an appropriate place for that occasional discussion.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

59 minutes ago, Pat Atkins said:

I wonder if he was living/working in South London on the outbreak of war? As he joined the (at-this-point-still-very-local TF) battalion late August 1914, I assume he was in some manner local at that point.

Yes he was.

There is a potted biography here.

Thanks to Gunner 87 who sent me this link:

https://www.bangor.ac.uk/archives/memorial/InMemoryofthefallenfromtheUniversity-PJHall.php.en

[Pat Atkins]

Nice one, thanks Dai.

 

Edit: wonder why he joined 23rd Londons rather than a battalion local to him in either Richmond (work) or Gunnersby (residence)? Anyway, doubt we'll ever know!

Edited 5 March , 2021 by Pat Atkins

[Guest]

Hello,  I was wondering if you can help with any detail about Private 3379 Private Frank Lionel Wealthy? I've recently started looking through my family tree and he was my great grandfather. I would love to know if there is anything about him out there. I know he survived the First World War but I would quite like to know which battles he was involved in if possible.

 

Thanks in advance,
Sam

Edited 5 March , 2021 by Guest

[Gunner 87]

1 hour ago, Sam98 said:

Hello,  I was wondering if you can help with any detail about Private 3379 Private Frank Lionel Wealthy? I've recently started looking through my family tree and he was my great grandfather. I would love to know if there is anything about him out there

 

Thanks in advance,
Sam

 

Hello Sam, welcome to the forum. Fold3 have Frank's Territorial Force Attestation recording the date of his medical examination as the 18th November 1914 and enlistment as the 22nd November 1914 with address as 65 Northcote Road, Croydon. A brief look at his record shows he served in France from 1916 which is supported by the Medal Index Card, found at the NA in addition to Fold3, listing the Victory Medal, British War Medal. and Silver War Badge. Also held on Fold3 are Franks Pension Ledgers recording his regimental number as 3379 and 700927. 

Edited 5 March , 2021 by Gunner 87

[clk]

Hi Sam,

 

Welcome to the Forum.

 

If you have access to Ancestry, what's left of his service file is here*. His medal index card is here, his medal roll record here, and his Silver War Bade record here. It might be worth looking at the Long, Long Trail (link) which gives very good advice on how to research a soldier, and how to interpret the records that you find. It also explains why Frank had two service numbers (link).

 

* Findmypast also has a copy of the record, where (for me) their images are easier to read - link.

 

Whilst it is unlikely to mention him by name, the war diary for 1/23 London Regiment is available as a free download from the National Archives - link. If you would like more context to the events recorded in that diary it would be worth considering downloading the Division HQ, and Brigade HQ diaries as well - link and here. There is help on how to read map references here.

 

There is a potted history of 47 Division here.

 

Good luck with your research.

 

Regards

Chris

[Michelle Young]

On 06/03/2021 at 10:46, clk said:

Hi Sam,

 

Welcome to the Forum.

 

If you have access to Ancestry, what's left of his service file is here*. His medal index card is here, his medal roll record here, and his Silver War Bade record here. It might be worth looking at the Long, Long Trail (link) which gives very good advice on how to research a soldier, and how to interpret the records that you find. It also explains why Frank had two service numbers (link).

 

* Findmypast also has a copy of the record, where (for me) their images are easier to read - link.

 

Whilst it is unlikely to mention him by name, the war diary for 1/23 London Regiment is available as a free download from the National Archives - link. If you would like more context to the events recorded in that diary it would be worth considering downloading the Division HQ, and Brigade HQ diaries as well - link and here. There is help on how to read map references here.

 

There is a potted history of 47 Division here.

 

Good luck with your research.

 

Regards

Chris

Unfortunately, @Sam98only ever made that one post and never came back.

[Raypalmer]

14 hours ago, Michelle Young said:

Unfortunately, @Sam98only ever made that one post and never came back.

OK, thanks anyway Michelle. I've had some replies elsewhere on the Forum.

Ray

[Jim Hastings]

Hello Matthew 

Hope you are still compiling your list. I have one for you that I've just researched. My nan's cousin, 26625 Pte Albert Allen Stanley, from the Finedon/Wellingborough area of Northamptonshire.

He attests on 25th June 1917 and spends the remainder of 1917 with the 23rd then 51st Training Reserve Battalions. His Service Docs survive 

To F&F 30th March 1918 and posted to 23rd Londons on 3rd April 1918. He serves with them until 6th Sept 1918 when a GSW to the scalp gets him Blighted to Netley. He is administrated by 3rd East Surrey's and is discharged 18th Jan 1919 with 100% disability and SWB B106858. He lived until 1974, having been born in 1900.

You may already have him though. To confirm was 1/23rd. 

Now need to raid WD to see where he served and where he was possibly wounded

All the best

Jim

[Bentman31001]

Dear Anthony and Matthew,

My name is Paul Bentman. I am a relative of Private Claude Stuart (Stewart) Bentman of the 23rd London Batallion, and I have been researching the family history. We don’t have much information on Claude or his brother Leonard (London 9th) who was also killed in the Great War, but in France,  and so would be grateful if you could contact me with any information you have please. I recently went to Marylebone where he was born to look for a roll of honour that i have seen in a photo taken in an unidentified  church that includes the brothers but couldn’t locate it. I thought it was St Cyprians but I was wrong. I have also seen online that the brothers’ medals were auctioned, unfortunately too late for us to be able to bid to reclaim them for the family. Any info gratefully received.

 

[Michelle Young]

Welcome to the forum. @westkent78 and @Anthony Gorst haven’t visited the forum for  a while. Hopefully, my tags will alert them to your post. I’ve also edited your post to remove your email address. Never a good idea to put personal information on a public forum, as spammers can harvest information like that. 
Meantime, hopefully other members will be able to assist you. 

[Bentman31001]

Thank you for your responses Michelle and Alan. Much appreciated. The photo is great. We had no idea that Claude was a chemistry student!

With regard to St Cyprians, I understood that the Clarence Gate church was where the roll of honour is located, and arranged a visit to the church recently. However, there is no Great War memorial at the church, only two small Second World War memorials. 
 

The kind man who worked for, and showed me the church, seems to think that, based on Claude’s home address, the family would have gone to one of two other churches just the other side of the Marylebone Road. I’ll get back in touch with St Cyprians this weekend.

Once again, if anyone can help solve the mystery, we’d be extremely grateful.

[Ivor Anderson]

13 hours ago, Bentman31001 said:

Private Claude Stuart (Stewart) Bentman of the 23rd London Batallion

He was indeed with the 23rd London Regiment. His service record is available on Ancestry: https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=1219&h=54259&tid=&pid=&queryId=e0726bbbb8f92334512c6100e9911dd1&usePUB=true&_phsrc=qzF1715&_phstart=successSource

Edited 2 September , 2022 by Ivor Anderson

[Ivor Anderson]

He served in Salonica & Egypt (SR - Ancestry):

Edited 2 September , 2022 by Ivor Anderson

[Michelle Young]

There’s an outside chance I will get to Laventie cemetery later this month. Would you like a photo of Leonard’s grave? 

[Michelle Young]

Interestingly on the documents on the CWGC it says about a special layout for his stone. Presumably, because his previous number is included? 
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/327842/leonard-bentman/

[Bentman31001]

Hi Michelle, I’d love a pic if you can get one, thanks!

Ivor Anderson, the docs are great. Thank you.

(There seems to be more information available on Claude than on Leonard)

[Michelle Young]

Here you are @Bentman31001

[Bentman31001]

On 02/10/2022 at 17:11, Michelle Young said:

Here you are @Bentman31001

Thanks loads Michelle 😀

I hope you enjoyed the trip!

[Anorak]

hi i  was in the 23 london cadet unit in 1950 and have a great interest in the 23 london i collected medals and badges to the unit  but had to sell my collection when our maggie was in number 1o cyril james weddall 1459 later mgc 23221 had is medals for a while and sparkes 5667 william  was killed in 1916 is papers still can be seen it amazed me the army was still chasing is mum and sister for a greatcoat he left be hined it read as far has i could make out .completed by you and returned to head office  4 london wall bldgs from the royal army clothing  arrangement's for filling in the clothes to nearest military . greatcoat must be handed  by you as soon possible  infantry records the faimly devastate by loss and being chased for is coat i have a few more names some were if come across them i will put on site if its still live anorak

[Bordercollie]

Hello Anorak I think I can reassure you that the army was not chasing Horace's mother and sister for a greatcoat.  The two images from his file below (courtesy of Find My Past) are the front and back of a single sheet.  The first image is the front and records Horace's name and some numbers.  Its purpose is unclear but could be something to do with the disposal of his medals as it is among other papers related to that. The second image is the back and appears to be part of a document that has been torn into four and its back (now the front) used for the note in Horace's file.  In today's terms commendable recycling.  So the typing on the second image is nothing to with Horace or his army service.

 

 

[Anorak]

hi iam glad about shows little knowledge dangerous thing anorak

[Skipo]

Very interesting thread.

Can anyone help with where the 2/23rd was on 10-12 October 1916? I'm researching a man who received a GSW to his arm on one of these three days and treated initially at the 42nd CCS.

Any help gratefully received as I cannot locate the War Diary on TNA's search engine for some reason.

Best,

Skip