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ASC Service numbers


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M3 and M4 prefixed numbers

I have come across very few M3 and M4 prefixed numbers. MT seem to have used the M2 prefix right up to the end of 1915. When conscription starts in 1916 they seem to have reverted to M prefix. The few examples I have, e.g M4/064831 Pte George Bernard Booth, are in blocks of numbers not allocated by MT, so probably originally T4, S4 or R4 and transferred to MT and changed to M4.

Edited by Gardenerbill
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M2 prefix numbers third block
Numbers 035401 to 045500 were allocated to Horse transport, Remounts, supply etc. The next block of M2 numbers begins with M2/045501 Pte Frederick T Justice and ends with M2/055500 a/Cpl Thomas Comins. With Grove Park now established as the No.1 Reserve Mechanical Transport Depot, the majority of these numbers are issued there from mid January to the end of March 1915, I have only found 1 example that wasn't (M2/054139 Pte George Graham King attested Bulford).

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Have you come across any information about the M1/SR and M2/SR numbers? According to the MICs and other sources, they exist but I haven't seen any medals with these prefixs.

 

All the best,

 

Gary

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Found an casualty on CWGC for you Gb:-

COCKLE, C

Rank: Private

Service No: M2/SR/02401

Date of Death: 15/04/1919

Age:37

Regiment/Service: Royal Army Service Corps

773rd M.T. Coy.

Grave Reference: III. F. 12.

Cemetery: TEHRAN WAR CEMETERY

Additional Information:

Son of William and Zilpah Cockle; husband of Minnie Florence Cockle, of 9, Ashton St., Merefield, Rochdale.

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I have examples for the S1/SR and S2/SR prefixes but not to the M1/SR or M2/SR ones. I haven't even seen examples offered for sale.

 

All the best,

 

Gary

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The example supplied by knotty has the number 2401, this is from a range of numbers not allocated by MT, so I believe the number was originally prefixed S2/SR as per the MIC I found and the man probably transferred to MT and had his number alterred to M2/SR/02401. If I am correct the incidence of M1/SR and M2/SR numbers would be relatively rare. To prove it we would have to find an attestation form for a man with the M1/SR or M2/SR prefix that clearly showed his original prefix crossed out and replaced.

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Although the entry on the CWGC site has the number M2/SR/02401 his medal index card indicates that T2/SR/02401 would have been on his medals:

 

599f2b1e2fa07_CharlesCockle1ASC.png.348df16b5d49ff82a0dc8c1e0122d5db.png

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I thought that the "X and dots" indicated the naming on the medals? Interesting that they assigned this prefix in 1917.

 

All the best,

 

Gary

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10 hours ago, Waggoner said:

I thought that the "X and dots" indicated the naming on the medals? Interesting that they assigned this prefix in 1917.

 

All the best,

 

Gary

Yes that's right the x and dots can be seen on the line with rank Dvr and number T2SR/02401

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But 27 January 1917 seems very late to assign this prefix. I think it was in 1916 or 1917 that they simpified the sytem and only used the basic "M"? Do his service records suggest a reson for this?

 

All the best,

 

Gary

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The number T2/SR/02401 apperas on his attestation form signed in december 1914 he must have served with horse transport for two years before his transfer in january 1917.

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Numbers 055001 to 073000 were allocated to horse transport, remounts, supply etc.
M2 Prefix numbers fourth Block
The next block of MT numbers begins with M2/073001 Pte George Castle and ends with M2/082998 Pte George J Watkins these numbers were issued during April, May and June 1915 mostly at Grove Park.
The first DM2 prefix appears in this range, DM2/075001 Pte Frederick W Adams, all the numbers up to DM2/075998 are prefixed DM2 and were issued issued in April and may 1915. The DM2 numbers are referred to as learner drivers, however in my opininion the prefix was probably intended to indicate that these men were trained lorry drivers.

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1 hour ago, Gardenerbill said:

The number T2/SR/02401 apperas on his attestation form signed in december 1914 he must have served with horse transport for two years before his transfer in january 1917.

Although the number is on the form, and the form was dated 21/12/1914, it looks to me as though the number is in  different handwriting, and there's no guarantee that the number was written on that day.

Also, the number T4/038900 appears to have been crossed out for some reason.

Ancestry actually have him indexed under that number.

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It is odd isn't it the number 038900 I think would have been allocated sometime around December 1914 to February 1915 which fits better with the signature date whereas 02401 is an early number from August or September 1914.

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Numbers 083001 to 096500 were allocated to horse transport, remounts, supply etc.

 

M2 Prefix numbers 5th Block

The next block of MT numbers begins with DM2 prefixes with DM2/096501 Pte Harry Spill. The DM2 prefixes end at DM2/097499 Cpl John H Thompson. The M2 Prefixes start with M2/097501 a/Cpl George Budd and end with M2/106500 Pte Reginal S C Farquett. Most of these numbers were allocated in May and June 1915.

 

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Some evidence to back up my transfer theory. Here you can see that Pte Edwin Darling was orginally given the number T1/1819 when he attested in November 1914. When he subsequently joined up at Grove Park 8th February 1915 the number was changed to M1/1819 his trade is recorded as Mechanic.

 

59a2fd4d21ac5_EdwinDarlingT1toM1.png.8e190c70b171cd17d20fa41aa7639243.png

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Sorry to hear this! I have found this discussion to be most interesting. When I return home, I will look up my "M" prefixes and post the details. I should have the MICs that ndicate when they entered a theatre. There was an article about prefixes that was published, perhaps in the OMRS journal, some yeas ago. In it was a page of blocks of ASC numbers and what prefixes were in the range. 

 

All the best,

 

Gary

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Gary,

I will continue working on the neumbers but without access to service records you can't determine the start and end dates of the groups of numbers. And of course it gets quite difficult in 1916 when the Derby scheme reserves are called up having had their numbers allocated at the end of 1915, then conscription starts. After 1915 no theatre dates are recorded on the MICs. Anyway for those who like stats here are the numbers from 1914 to Novemebr 1915:

 

59a81c39259e2_ASCstats.png.684eb9a8ea03f0297d40ac948262ddd6.png

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On 31/08/2017 at 02:40, Waggoner said:

Sorry to hear this! I have found this discussion to be most interesting. When I return home, I will look up my "M" prefixes and post the details. I should have the MICs that ndicate when they entered a theatre. There was an article about prefixes that was published, perhaps in the OMRS journal, some yeas ago. In it was a page of blocks of ASC numbers and what prefixes were in the range. 

 

All the best,

 

Gary

 

Gary,

I am definitely interested in any details of M prefix numbers that you have, if you have time to post them.

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Mark,

 

I am away at the moment but will gladly share once I return in a few weeks.

 

All the best,

 

Gary

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  • 3 weeks later...

I am still working my way through the medal index cards to find the ranges of numbers allocated to Mechanical Transport and I have come across an interesting set of numbers; starting at 210002 and ending at 210205. These numbers all have an unusaul prefix on the medal card for example:

 

Alfred W Hickling ASC rank Cadet service number Petrol/210002

William G Smith ASC rank Pte service number Petrol/210101

William Sims ASC rank Cadet service number Petrol/210205

 

Interestingly 5 of the 8 I have sampled in this range have the rank of Cadet, hopefully when I next have an FMP subscription I can find a service record for one of the men in this range that may shed some light on this little mystery.

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