Terry Denham Posted 8 January , 2004 Share Posted 8 January , 2004 As Christine, RTpots and Lee do not seem to be on-line tonight, I have jumped in and posted today's name. CWGC's details... Name: GEORGE, HERBERT JAMES Initials: H J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment: Army Service Corps Unit Text: 605th M.T. Coy. Age: 34 Date of Death: 08/01/1916 Service No: M2/097515 Additional information: Husband of Edith George, of High St., Brackley, Northants. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: 14. G. 16. Cemetery: BARI WAR CEMETERY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 8 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 8 January , 2004 Why was he buried down there in southern Italy? Original CWGC register says ‘Drowned as a result of an attack by an enemy submarine’. No ship is mentioned and there is none listed for that date in “British Vessels Lost at Sea 14-18” – either sunk or attacked. He is one of three men from 605 MT Coy, ASC buried in Bari War Cemetery. The others lie next to him and are… Pte F.Parker M2/102884 Pte Thomas Stead M2/118633 All three died on 08.01.16 and there are no other ASC men in the cemetery or any from other units who died on that day. All were originally buried in Brindisi Communal Cemetery and moved to Bari in 1981. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christine liava'a Posted 8 January , 2004 Share Posted 8 January , 2004 Perhaps this event had something to do with it. The Città di Palermo auxiliary cruiser near Brindisi 1916 The Città di Palermo was a postal-liner, built in wood and iron at Riva Trigoso during 1910. At the beginning of the I World War, the Città di Palermo and her sister ships, the Città di Messina and the Città di Sassari, were converted in auxiliary cruisers, and served in escort operations or as fast freighters. On January 8, 1916, the Città di Palermo collided with a mine off the coast of Brindisi, and sunk rapidly ........................................................ Italian armed merchant cruiser Citta di Palermo (1052t) mined off Brindisi by mine laid by German UC14; c100 British lost but c100 rescued by drifters. Drifters Freuchny and Morning Star mined during rescue attempts. Does this imply that approx 200 British men were on board the Citta Di Palermo? If so, where were they travelling from and to? Why? 1916 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christine liava'a Posted 8 January , 2004 Share Posted 8 January , 2004 FreeBMD Births Dec 1881 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GEORGE Herbert Alexander J Carlisle 10b 465 GEORGE Herbert James Brackley 3b 6 Although Herbert was born after the 1881 census, a search of the George families in Brackley, Northants reveals only one George family with small children Dwelling: Antelope Hill Census Place: Brackley St Peter, Northampton, England Source: FHL Film 1341369 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 1531 Folio 50 Page 18 Marr Age Sex Birthplace William GEORGE M 30 M Brackley, Northampton, England Rel: Head Occ: Farm Laborer Sarah Ann GEORGE M 29 F Shotowell, Oxford, England Rel: Wife Allen Buler GEORGE 12 M Shotowell, Oxford, England Rel: Son Occ: Farm Laborer Edwin GEORGE 9 M Brackley, Northampton, England Rel: Son Occ: Scholar William GEORGE 7 M Charwelton, Northampton, England Rel: Son Occ: Scholar Walter GEORGE 6 M Charwelton, Northampton, England Rel: Son Occ: Scholar Florence GEORGE 3 F Halse, Northampton, England Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar Harry GEORGE 1 M Upton, Warwick, England Rel: Son These may be Herbert's family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christine liava'a Posted 8 January , 2004 Share Posted 8 January , 2004 What does the M2 in his number mean? M2/097515 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 8 January , 2004 Share Posted 8 January , 2004 Christine, Per Michael Young's history of the ASC M2 = Mechanical Transport [Enlisted Special Reserve for the New Armies] Regards Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 8 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 8 January , 2004 The Citta di Palermo certainly seems to be the ship and, being Italian, explains why the event is not listed in "British Vessels Lost at Sea"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hill 60 Posted 8 January , 2004 Share Posted 8 January , 2004 SDGW shows 61 ORs of the ASC all dying at sea on this day. Were they going out to a 'front' or coming back on leave? Some of their numbers are quite close together and a quick breakdown of the numbers shows: M2/ = 51 S2SR/ = 4 S4/ = 5 S5/ = 1 Pte = 53 A/Cpl = 4 A/Sgt = 1 Mech./S. = 1 Staff Sgt = 1 T. SSM = 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 8 January , 2004 Share Posted 8 January , 2004 Apologies all, my post earlier this morning is incorrect M2 = Mechanical Transport Private George's number does not include SR so the ref I made to Special Reserve does not apply S2 (SR) = Supply (Special Reserve) S4 = Supply (Labour) All three prefixes are for New Armies [after 20th Nov 1916 the numbers denoting New Armies were dropped and the prefixes became simply the letters denoting the Branch; T (Horse Transport), S (Supply) , M (Mechanical Transport) or R (Remounts)] S5 does not appear on Young's Annex M ['Supply' 5th New Army?] Regards Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 8 January , 2004 Share Posted 8 January , 2004 It is a little ironic that on October 3rd 1917, the submarine UC 14 ran into a mine on the way home after a mission on the English coast. The UC 14 submarine was under the command of reserve officer Feddersen when she sank. There is a webpage about the wrecked sub at http://home.planet.nl/~lange133/wrecks-wrakken/UC-14.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 8 January , 2004 Share Posted 8 January , 2004 The Citta di Palermo was built for the Italian State Railways in 1910. She left Brindisi on the morning of 8th Jan 1916 with a number of troops for Durazzo, including a British contingent of four officers and 130 OR's. At 0830hrs, when 6 miles off Brindisi, the vessel ran into a small minefield. She struck one of the mines and foundered almost at once. Fortunately a number of minesweepers were in the vicinity and they came to the recue with great promptitude. The number on board the Citta di Palermo was just over 200, of whom about half were saved including 84 British. Source: Dictionary of Disasters at Sea 1824-1962, Charles Hocking. Terry Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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