More Forum members in print.

[Alan Lines]

Congratulations and thanks for your efforts to the three Forum members who have had what I found to be two very thought provoking articles printed in the last week. Rosemary Clarke had one printed in the Great War magazine and Nils Fabiansson and Hedley Malloch had one printed in Stand To!

[john w.]

Good call.. what were they about please Alan as I do not subscribe to either...

Hangs head in shame

John

[Fleur]

Rosemary's article in GWM was about a guy shot at dawn for deserting his post.

Fascinating article on what can sometimes be a very emotive and emotional subject.

Rosemary handled it beautifully and without bias.

Fleur

[Alan Lines]

John

Nils and Hedley tried to follow in the footsteps of Ernst Junger at Bullecourt. They show how difficult this type of activity can be despite having a good description of the events which in turn raised some good questions about placing memorials and suchlike.

[Fabiansson]

Thank you Alan,

Then we have at least one reader. I have not got a copy of the journal yet though, perhaps it is on its way to Sweden.

Hedley and I wrote it some time ago - Stand To! has a rather long queue - and during that time a new translation of Storm of Steel appeared. Fortunately our study is not based only on the British (first) translation, but instead used the several different re-editions of the German original together with the original diary notes. (Michael Hofmann, the new translator, is wrong about the different re-editions by the way - the correct re-edition history of the book is to read in our article! )

/Nils

[Hedley Malloch]

John

Nils and Hedley tried to follow in the footsteps of Ernst Junger at Bullecourt. They show how difficult this type of activity can be despite having a good description of the events which in turn raised some good questions about placing memorials and suchlike.

Tell me Alan, do you have a signed copy of our article ... or do you have one of the rare ones?

[Rosemary Clarke]

Rosemary's article in GWM was about a guy shot at dawn for deserting his post.

Fascinating article on what can sometimes be a very emotive and emotional subject.

Rosemary handled it beautifully and without bias.

If you like I could scan and convert to PDF the article for you from the mag. as you are not a subscriber (if that's OK with Rosemary)

Mail me off forum.

Fleur

Many thanks for Alan and Fleur for the mention in despatches and very kind compliments. The article was intended for publication in last September's issue, so it was good to see the piece in print at last.

I certainly have no objection to your copying it, Fleur.

Best wishes to all.

Rosemary

NB Congratulations to Hedley and Nils for their contribution to Stand To! Have yet to see my copy, which hasn't winged its way to this part of Hampshire

[Martyn Gibson]

Rosemary, you must have the same mail system as me as my copy of Stand To has not yet reached darkest Wiltshire.

[AGWR]

Nor Somerset

[Rosemary Clarke]

Strange thing is, Alan Lines seems to have received his copy and he, also, is based it southern Hants!

I seem to recall previous similar distribution peculiarities from an earlier thread.

[Fleur]

Sorry chaps,

I have to withdraw my offer of scanning and converting to PDF Rosemarys article from GWM as it has been brought to my attention that there may be a copyright infringement.

Sorry

Fleur

[Alan Lines]

I think mine arrived on Monday 5th.

[Rosemary Clarke]

Sorry chaps,

I have to withdraw my offer of scanning and converting to PDF Rosemarys article from GWM as it has been brought to my attention that there may be a copyright infringement.

Sorry

Fleur

As GWM states 'copyright rests with the publisher and/or named contributors' I am happy to scan the piece for anybody who would like a copy.

I should add that it won't be converted to the wizzo format offered by Fleur!

Rosemary

[egbert]

I have read the Stand To article from Nils and Hedley with great interest and congratulate both for their scientific approach to identify Juengers path towards the railway embankment. Of particular interest are the pro and cons concerning identified sunken road points A,B,C and D.

I did similar research approximately 4 years ago on scene. My approach was completely different: I saw it strictly limited from a military point of view “how would I do the approach” and my main source of literature which was “Feuer+Blut” (Fire and Blood) in its latest revised edition 1978. (Though I did read all the other editions starting with the 1925 edition).

Also I did not stop my research at the railway embankment, but in order to identify the most possible point of reaching/crossing the railway embankment I put Juengers continuing description (the path after crossing the railway embankment) into context.

Also I strictly followed the latest revised edition, were Juenger DOES NOT mention the 400m subject, NOR the “half-left” problem!!!!

Paired with my little military “sense” (30 years of service this year) I cannot say with 100% accuracy “here was exactly what Ernst Juenger probably encountered , how he maybe reacted” (none of us can imagine what happens in the heat of a manslaughter battle) but from what I researched, Ernst Juenger crossed the lines in direct approach to point D (he describes that in No Mans Land their direction/orientation was fine/on track as ordered due to the fine flagging of preceding officer patrols), than exactly through the sunken road from point D to close to C, crossing the railway embankment about a point where “Melbourne Ave” turned SW. This path is in line with the continued description towards the 2 British MG posts which flanked the “valley”(height 90m)SW of the railway embankment.

[john w.]

Rosemary

Would you oblige please...

John

[egbert]

For those of you who read the Stand To article about Ernst Juengers assault route, I'd like to make my point more clear with text-and map evidence I gained from the book "Feuer+Blut" and the Regimental History IR73:

in addition to what I wrote earlier in this thread, I will depict a drawing which shows No Mans Land and the regimental area of responsibility for IR 73. Both matters are important in order to understand the actual path Ernst Juenger was ordered to follow.

In the book he describes the scenery when the attack starts from own lines. He describes rushing through No Mans Land and observing the mighty artillery fire wall that still lies on the British first line (fire wall moves forward according to special timetable). 100 m in front of the fire wall they meet special German posts, comprising of handpicked officer patrols (acting in advance of the assault troops), which mark the correct assault paths for the different units. He says they signal with colored flags and further states in consequence that "we are right on track". That means, ca 100m in front of Selby Lane they were right on the line they were ordered to follow. That can be seen as proof, that Juenger MUST have crossed point D=Sydney End; A,B and C are out of the question! Only after point D, Juenger may have deviated from the original ordered plan due to the heat of the battle and under the influence of British fire. I hope that helps a little bit to get a more clear picture of Juengers actual path through the railway embankment.

[Rosemary Clarke]

For the avoidance of doubt:

Great Northern Publishing, which produces the Great War Magazine, has kindly given permission for me to copy my published magazine article for any Forum member who would like to see it - should anyone wish to.

As suggested by Fleur, it gives an account of the court martial and circumstances relating to the execution of Private Reginald Tite, in November 1916; he was a volunteer serving with the Royal Sussex Regiment.

Yes, John, I will certainly oblige...

Still haven't received my copy of Stand To!

Rosemary

[Paul Reed]

Rosemary - being interested in the Royal Sussex I would also like a copy, please. Thanks in advance.

[ianw]

Very much enjoyed Nils and Hedley's article and Egbert's additional comments.

Extraordinary how the Great War is reluctant to reveal it's secrets and maintains it's enigmas - pursuing questions always yield answers and part answers that generate more questions !

[john w.]

Rosemary

Got the article thanks.. a good read ... good to see SAD in print in such a way for the reader to make up their mind.

Thanks

John

[Rosemary Clarke]

Glad you found it of interest, John.

TGW also published my piece about young Private Hector Delande of the Seaforth Highlanders in their Special Edition last year.

Sadly, another 304 such cases to go...

Rosemary

[john w.]

Rosemary

Anything that can be done in print, I am happy to help and you are aware of the idea I have had re this year.

Did the film get a screening? I did try to contact Andy Barrett but in the end failed.

Archibald Brown lived in my next village and I am working on him. I have his trial papers and actually found the road where he lived. The latter sounds silly but it wasnt actually in the village, and I have spent the last three months trying to find it.

Perhaps you can tell me where Edward Tanner lived please.

John

[Fabiansson]

We (Hedley Malloch and Nils Fabiansson) read Egbert's comments with interest and would like to applaud his efforts. After having carefully considered his report we would wish to offer the following remarks.

The corridor drawn by Egbert indicating the attack of the 73rd Regiment on 21 March 1918 in the Bullecourt area is not quite same as that proposed by us in the article in Stand To!. According to our digitally made overlay the corridor is slightly to the north-west of the one indicated by Egbert. It is a small but crucial difference because in our overlay point C is inside the corridor. So Jünger could have passed point C without deviating from the original line of attack taken by his regiment. But we would like to underline that the ink line on the original regimental map is very thick; in reality it represents a band of land about 100 metres wide. The regimental historian has apparently not intended that the map should be used in the real terrain. Therefore it follows that it can only be taken as indicative rather than as a precise guide.

Egbert is quite right when he suggests that the accounts given by Jünger of his approach to the railway embankment in Feuer und Blut and In Stahlgewittern (Storm of Steel) are quite different. When sources conflict historians recommend the use of the first source rather than later versions, i.e. in this case the first editions of In Stahlgewittern (Storm of Steel), which we used. We have also consulted his diary notes and these are not the same as Feuer und Blut.

Egbert's approach of what would I do if I were in Jünger's shoes ("how would I do the approach") is both novel and interesting, but it cannot really be recommended as it is not reliable; it is anachronistic by definition and besides that, individual interpretations will differ. It may have some use for making propositions of hypotheses to be tested by other methods, but it should not be used on its own.

For all these reasons we would not rule out point C - at least not yet on the basis of evidence to hand.

Hedley Malloch and Nils Fabiansson

[Muerrisch]

Two more in the pipeline: next Stand To! will contain my 'Crime and Punishment' detailing crimes of the Old Contemptible members of 1, 2 and 4RWF as extracted from the 1914 Medal Roll;

Stand To! following will have a big article on the 'Take-up of Special Reservists' by 1 and 2 RWF in the first few months of the war.

And three books in various stages of [de]composition.

And I've not forgotten my threatened "Extracts from Military Manuals".

Good job I have not one to go to.

[Rosemary Clarke]

Did the film get a screening? I did try to contact Andy Barrett but in the end failed.

Archibald Brown lived in my next village and I am working on him. I have his trial papers and actually found the road where he lived. The latter sounds silly but it wasnt actually in the village, and I have spent the last three months trying to find it.

Perhaps you can tell me where Edward Tanner lived please.

John

John

I shall e-mail off-Forum but for the record:

Unfortunately, Andrew Barrett's short film, The Long Shadow (see my web-site) has yet to get a release, let alone screening. As far as I am aware, finance has still not been secured for that release, since the sponsors decided to change their minds. A great shame.

I'm afraid I don't know where Edward Tanner (executed 1914) lived, although 'The Wardrobe' records list him as having been born in Lambourn, Berks.

Rosemary