Tom A McCluskey Posted 16 August , 2007 Share Posted 16 August , 2007 Bernadette, The 3 smart kilted soldiers are all Black Watch. The young chap is a boy drummer - perfectly legal in accordance with King's Regulations. They are brilliant photographs and I think you should take great care of them. Sgt McGuire was killed whilst with the 1st Black Watch at Ypres. The battalion was extremely busy during this period and took many casualties and as such the battalion diary for October does not exist. Many of the Black Watch officers had to correspond by letter to build a picture of what happened for the Regimental History. One of the guys on the forum, Ian Robertson, has many good photos of the 1st Battalion... some at Oudenarde Barracks in Aldershot, prior to their deployment to France. His relative was in the battalion - Tom Wilkie. I will let the link talk for itself: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...showtopic=62996 Hope this helps Aye Tom McC PS - The left hand soldier in the photo that Derek provided, has a bugle on his right hip. It would not surprise me if that is the Boy Drummer in the family photo: Thomas Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 16 August , 2007 Share Posted 16 August , 2007 The young man is a drummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete L Posted 16 August , 2007 Share Posted 16 August , 2007 Hi Bernadette Nice set of photographs. I don’t believe the ‘father’ in the last photo is the same man as in the first. He does not appear to have the star. As a foreign award this would always be worn on the end. Also, the first medal appears to only have three clasps. British medals were worn left to right – looked at from the front – in the order they were received, so his Egypt medal would always be first in line. If you can scan just the medals it would help to identify them. The young boy looks to be about 14 and is a drummer or other bandsman. With the rank of ‘Boy’ he would have earned 8d a day until he was 18. The other two are Lance Corporals, which is not a rank, but an appointment, for which they may or may not have received any extra pay. It was used as a kind of probation to see if they had leadership qualities. In the 1901 census, living at the depot of the Royal Hussars Queen’s Barracks, Perth are: - Thomas Graham, Aged 38, Occupation: Acteng Borpersl (infartry)*, born: Hawick, Denbighshire (sic) - John M Graham, aged 14, born: England - Isabella H Graham, aged 12, born: Edinburgh - James H Graham, aged 8, born: Perth - Thomas Graham, aged 6, born: Perth - Euphemea H Graham, aged 4, born: Perth - Lizzie H Graham, aged 2, born: Perth * This is an example of the new language invented by Ancestry of Bangalore, which means “Acting Corporal (infantry)”. What a shambles. No sign of the mother, but in the 1891 census they are living in Militia Quarters 22 to 28 James St, Perth, and her name is Isabella, one year older than her husband, and born in Perth. John’s place of birth is Tircoed Berwick on (Tweed). On www.freebmd.org.uk the birth of John Martin Graham is recorded in the July to September quarter of 1886 at Berwick. I think this information confirms that the first photograph is not Thomas (senior) as he would have been in his early 20s at the time of the Egypt campaign, and I think this guy is older. Of course a decent scan of the medals may make a liar of me. John would have been about 22 in 1909, which looks right, for the Curragh photo Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A McCluskey Posted 16 August , 2007 Share Posted 16 August , 2007 Bernadette, A 3852 Lance Corporal Thomas Graham, of The Black Watch, was awarded the Long Service & Good Conduct Medal (with gratuity) in 1907. The date of recommendation was the 1st of July 1907 (No. of Paper: 54 of 07). This might be the father who served in the Regiment for 25 years. Hope this helps Aye Tom McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 16 August , 2007 Share Posted 16 August , 2007 Bernadette, In this photo he's actually wearing the uniform of a drummer and so would suggest he'd been a Drummer Boy on enlistment. Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMacIntyre Posted 16 August , 2007 Author Share Posted 16 August , 2007 I Definately need to sit down !!!!!!I am STUNNED !!!!!!!! THANK YOU SO SO SO MUCH !!!!!!! Yes all these names mean something to me. Thomas Graham Snr was my Great Grandfather John Graham's younger brother. Their Father John Grahm Snr owned a hotel/pub called the "Holland House" in Drumlanrig Square in Hawick Early meetings of the Hawick Burns Club took place at this hostelery. A lot of the family lived in Drumlanrig Square and the surrounding area. Thomas Graham Snr married Isabella Haldane and their son was James Haldane Graham. John Graham (in the photos ) would write regularly to his Uncle John Graham and often come to stay with him and the family. My Grandmother Elizabeth Graham remembered him clearly but would only tell us his name was John and would not tell us anything more about him at all. It upset her to remember. Derek ..... Can I ask you where you got all these photos from ???????????????????????? The Graham Brothers are my Grandmother's 1st Cousins. It is WONDERFUL to have these new photos of my family !!!!!!! They are very precious. It must have been an awful time... like so many families to have 3 sons at the front !!! Is their any way that I can find their service numbers so I can look up their service records ???? Please advise where I go from here ....... This is all new to me. Sorry for all the questions !!!!!! I cannot thank you all enough !!!!! Bernadette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMacIntyre Posted 16 August , 2007 Author Share Posted 16 August , 2007 Derek.. Please can you send me the photo of the Graham Brothers at the higher resolution .. It would be much appreciated. Bernadette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david murdoch Posted 16 August , 2007 Share Posted 16 August , 2007 The Medals are: The 1882-89 Egypt Medal with what looks like four or five clasps and the Khedive's Star for Egypt (there were several versions but this is probably the one dated '1882'). They were there from 1882-1886, making a five clasp medal eminently possible. I am very lucky to have my great grandfather's Nile Medal and Khedive's star - He was 1st Gordons. It (the Nile Medal is 1882) and has four bars, The Nile 1882, Tel El Kebir, El Teb - Tamaai. and Suakin 1884. I did some research on it a while back - four and five bar Nile medals are less common, and valued depending on the combination of the clasps. I also inherited his cap badge and brass Gordon title. Also found his service record from his army number on the medal. By coincidence I am just in the middle of reading a great book about the Nile campaigns - Khartoum by Michael Asher (Penguin Books). It's a very well written and detailed account - worth a read! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Robertson Posted 16 August , 2007 Share Posted 16 August , 2007 Their Father John Grahm Snr owned a hotel/pub called the "Holland House" in Drumlanrig Square in Hawick Early meetings of the Hawick Burns Club took place at this hostelery. A lot of the family lived in Drumlanrig Square and the surrounding area. Bernadette, The "Holland House" ceased as a pub not many years ago. My Great-Grandfather (see my avatar) was brought up in Drumlanrig Square in Hawick. And for such a small area there was a high incidence of death in the Great War from here. And, as for all the information that you've received so far................................. WOW!!! If we could all be so lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMacIntyre Posted 17 August , 2007 Author Share Posted 17 August , 2007 Graham, Tom, Phil, Stewart, Pete I cannot thank you enough for helping me with these photos !!! It means so much to my family and me. I am extremely lucky thanks to you all to find out so much !!!!!!!!! And look forward to finding out more about my family and the 1st btn during this time. Thank you all for your time and efforts Bernadette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A McCluskey Posted 18 August , 2007 Share Posted 18 August , 2007 Bernadette, When the Black Watch star shaped badge first came into general use, I believe the 1st Battalion's (42nd) differed from the 2nd Battalion. The 1st Bn had a "42" where the 'Jimmy' is situated. The Jimmy being the Saint Andrew. Eventually, all battalions wore this...but some sergeants in the 1st battalion kept this tradition alive in their glengarry bonnets after they were no longer usual day dress (Sergeants & Warrant Officers wore the solid dark-dark blue glengarry with Mess Kit, when the glengarry was no longer worn in normal forms of dress) Aye Tom McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMacIntyre Posted 27 August , 2007 Author Share Posted 27 August , 2007 Just to let you know, I have taken the information that I have learned on this forum and I think I may have identified the photo of the lone solider as James Graham James was one of the names given by Stewart of Grahams's with 5 clasps. James was the brother of Thomas Graham Snr and my Great Grandfather John Graham. I had forgotten about him as he only appers on the 1871 census living with the family..... I have managed to find him on the next census in Aldershot in the barracks there. I will take Stewarts advise and write to the Black Watch Museum for futher information !!! I have also discovered that Thomas Graham (the drummer boy) was discarged from the army in July 1917. Without all of your help I would not have got this far... but I thought that you would like to know that I used your very valuable information to make progress. Kind Regards Bernadette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECopland Posted 19 February , 2021 Share Posted 19 February , 2021 BMacIntyre - I might be related to you (!!) I've been looking for information on my Great Great Grandfather John Martin Graham possible company corporal of Black Watch in 1911, with possible parents Isabella Haldane and Thomas Graham. I can't find any records for him older than 1911, but I stumbles across these posts and I think there could be a cross-over. I realise your posts are several years ago and this is a long shot, but I;d be interested in talking more about this if you are still on the forum. E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohn Posted 20 February , 2021 Share Posted 20 February , 2021 Sorry but he last visited in 2012 not likely to see your post. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 20 February , 2021 Admin Share Posted 20 February , 2021 You can try sending BMaacIntyre a personal message. Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECopland Posted 20 February , 2021 Share Posted 20 February , 2021 Thank you both. I'll drop BMacIntyre a pm to see if she is still active. I'm also interested to see some of the photographs that Derek Robertson posted, but the don't seem to open for me. Any ideas why not? Is there another place they could be accessible? Many thanks for your help. E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 20 February , 2021 Admin Share Posted 20 February , 2021 Owing to upgrades over the years, regrettably some images are no longer available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECopland Posted 20 February , 2021 Share Posted 20 February , 2021 I see. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 20 February , 2021 Admin Share Posted 20 February , 2021 Derek was on the forum in December 2020, so you could try a PM to him as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Robertson Posted 20 February , 2021 Share Posted 20 February , 2021 The 3 Graham brothers appear to have all served in 'A' Company of the 1st Bn. Black Watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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