Jump to content
Great War Forum

Remembered Today:

Sign in to follow this  
Ryegate

For soldiers killed in action

Recommended Posts

Ryegate

Hello Deb

Meant to add that Roy did not marry in 1912 nor 1913.

There is a Roy H Phillips marriage in 1911 3rd Q. 8a 455.

Unfortunately before 1912, the records do not show the maiden name of the bride.

Regards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alison1212

Hello Ryegate,

I don't suppose you could look up:

Thomas Rowles.

6th bn - Royal irish fusiliers.

Enlisted- Manchester.

Rank - L.Corporal

Service no. - 13732

Died - 09/08/1915

Any info would be great!

Thanks,

Alison.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ryegate

Hi Alison

details are:

Name: Rowles, Thomas

Regiment: Princess Victoria's (Royal Irish Fusiliers

Battalion: 6th Battalion

Birthplace: Manchester

Enlisted: Manchester

Residence: Deansgate, Manchester

Rank: L/CPL

Number: 13732

Date died: 09 August 1915

How died: Killed in Action

Theatre of War: Gallipoli

Death cert ref: 1915 I.76 106

Regards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alison1212

Thanks!

Where would i order this cert from with the ref. no. you gave me?

Also would it have any additional infomation on it? like family?

I was also told that his wife was awarded an army pension but i don't know where they got that infomation from do you know where i might be able to view this infomation?

Sorry for asking a lot of questions! i'm not that great on thing to do with the war!!! :rolleyes:

Thanks again,

Alison.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Guardroom

Hi Ryegate,

Could you possibly help with the 2 gentlemen below on death cert refs. Would this mean that I could get a copy ordered via the family records centre and find out what their cause of death was if known ?

Especially in Williams Case as he DOW at the 2/ 22London Casualty station at Grovetown ?

Gt Gt Grandfather G/ 201268 Pte. William Evans 1st Middlesex Regt DOW recieved at Le Transloy 4th Nov 1916 Buried Grove Town Cemetery from Harefield Middlesex

Gt Gt Uncle KIA 13th Nov 1916 at Serre 28231 Pte / LCpl George Smith Scott 1st Royal Scots Fusiliers KIA at Serre from Arbroath . Missing and on the Thiepval Memorial

Many thanks,

Alan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Michael Johnson

Could you please check 2Lt. Stanley James West, 2nd Queen's Regiment? Married March Quarter 1917, died London November 20, 1917.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ryegate

Alison

You can order the cert from the GRO online. It will cost £7 with the reference. £11 if you don't quote it.

It will show nothing more than date, place and cause of death.

I will take a look at the Ancestry pension records to see if they have anything on him and will let you know.

Regards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alison1212

Thanks Ryegate!

Alison.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Diane Alden

You have been kind enough to help me once but I wonder if I could ask you to help me again please?

Does Find my Past have the WWI Pension records and would they be the same as the one's on Ancestry? ( I hope this is not as dumb as it sounds!!)

The reason I am asking is that I have looked up on Ancestry for one Francis Maidment. Great news he was there and it said 5 pages..........bad news was there was only one which was the first page of the Attestation. Checked the next pages before and after but different Maidment's. Just wondered if you could look up Francis and see if it is only one page or 5 please.

Full details

Francis Maidment

No 8955

Born Stoneham Southampton

18 years

Duke of Cornwall's L Infantry

Date of Enlistment 1908

My guess is that it will be the same as Ancestry but here's hoping

Thanks once again

Di

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ryegate

Alan

Details are:

Name: Evans, William

Regiment: Duke of Cambridge's Own (Middlesex Regiment)

Battalion: 1st Battalion

Birthplace: Notting Hill, Middlesex

Enlisted: Harefield, Middlesex

Residence: Harefield Middlesex

Rank: Private

Number: G/20126

Date died: 04 November 1916

How died: Died of Wounds

Theatre of War: France & Flanders

Death cert ref: 1916 I.69 327

Name: Scott, George

Regiment: Royal Scots Fusiliers

Battalion: 1st Battalion

Birthplace: Arbroath

Enlisted: Glasgow

Residence: Patrick, Glasgow

Rank: L/CPL

Number: 28231

Date died: 13 November 1916

How died: Died

Theatre of War: France & Flanders

No death cert ref. is registered for George. I have only come across a few that have no death certificate and in each case the How died has simply stated 'Died'

Not sure if you would find one on the GRO records but there is definitely not one listed in the Deaths for WW1. Sorry

Regards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ryegate

Michael

I think I have found Stanley without the regiment number as only one Stanley James Scott came up on the list.

This is him:

Name: West, Stanley James

Regiment: Queesn's (Royal West Surrey Regiment)

Battalion: Battalion not shown

Rank: 2/LT

Date died: 20 November 1917

How died: Died

Unfortunately there is no death cert ref for Stanley. As explained on my answer to Alan, I have only come across this a few times and each of those has been stated as 'Died' in answer to How died.

Not sure of the significance of this but you may find a death for him in the normal GRO records but his death certificate ref is not listed in the 'Soldiers deaths for WW1'

Sorry

Regards

PS If you think this is not your man because you have a different regiment number for him, give me a shout and I'll take another look

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Michael Johnson

That is definitely my man (many thanks). I wonder if "Died" is in distinction to "Died of wounds".

We tend to lose sight of the fact that in those days diseases were often fatal.

On the other hand the timing is significant. It is shortly after Passchaendale, where the 2nd Bn. took heavy casualties.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
John_Hartley
Could you please check 2Lt. Stanley James West, 2nd Queen's Regiment? Married March Quarter 1917, died London November 20, 1917.

Michael

As you point out, West died in London so won't be amongst the overseas death certificates list.

It does, however, raise the question of a possible non-commemoration by CWGC as I cannot find him listed. Was he still a serving officer at time of death? If so, then there is a cast iron case to submit to the Commission for him to be included.

If not, then his cause of death would have to be established and linked to his service. As Ryegate points out, he is shown in army records as having "died". This indicates a death from natural causes, accident or similar (rather than from wounds). Assuming he had been discharged, then if the cause of death was linked to the discharge reason, the case to the Commission is quite strong.

As you probably know, we have procedures in place to submit cases to the Commission on behalf of Forum members and I'd recommend you start a thread in the "possible non-commemorations" section under Cemeteries & Memorials.

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Michael Johnson

He is listed with CWGC: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...casualty=381435.

He might be a death from sickness or accident, but the timing is very close to Passchendaele.

At least my wife's great aunt would have been able to be with him, unlike the majority of wives.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
John_Hartley
He is listed with CWGC:

So he is......my apologies.

As you say, very close to Passchendaele and it wouldnt be the first time ODGW had it wrong about "died"/"died of wounds". It'd be worth you tracking war diary or Regimental history to see if there's any mention of him.

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KONDOA

Thanks for looking for Ernest Hopper for me.

Roop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ivor

Could you please look up:

Thomas Henry Holden DoB 30 September 1892, Silverdale Lancashire - Private 28009, 8th Battalion Loyal Lancshire Regiment.

Thanks for your giving of your time and help in this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ryegate

Ivor, you are very welcome

Details are:

Name: Holden, Thomas Henry

Regiment: Loyal North Lancashire Regiment

Battalion: 8th Battalion

Birthplace: Silverdale, Lancs

Enlisted: Barrow, Lancs

Residence: Silverdale

Rank: private

Number: 28009

Date died: 04 August 1917

How died: Killed in Action

Theatre of War: France & Flanders

Supplementary Notes: Formerly 34461 Royal Lancs Regiment

Death cert ref: 1917 I.22 375

Regards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
shinglma
Are there any examples of these certificates where they had some "additional" info?

Max

There seems to have been some very limited examples in the days when certificates were issued from local offices.

Forum member Paul Reed posted some examples which you might be able to call up by using the search engine.

These seem to have been an exception to the rule rather than the norm.

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
shinglma
I have found some details but sadly, this poor chap does not appear to have a death certificate. I have searched twice and even those out of order just in case he was there. I think it is very sad.

There will have been a death certificate but it may be missing from these registers. As a death at home he will not be in the Army registers but should be in the domestic ones. That said I can't find him. :(

However the GRO index is only a secondary index compiled from the original local registers. My guess it has either been misindexed or simply missed during the compilation process. It probably exists in the local registers but the problem is knowing which registration district to search.

However a certificate will have been issued. Death registration was compulsory from 1864 and a funeral could not proceed without the certificate.

Regards

Mike S

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ryegate

Hi

I don't mind taking a look for you if you wish?

I have access to them on Find my Past so would be happy to do so!

Regards

Can you let me know?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ralphjd
There will have been a death certificate but it may be missing from these registers. As a death at home he will not be in the Army registers but should be in the domestic ones. That said I can't find him. :(

However the GRO index is only a secondary index compiled from the original local registers. My guess it has either been misindexed or simply missed during the compilation process. It probably exists in the local registers but the problem is knowing which registration district to search.

However a certificate will have been issued. Death registration was compulsory from 1864 and a funeral could not proceed without the certificate.

Regards

Mike S

Mike. I posted a reply to Michael the other day(cant find it now) entry in Ancestry.co BMD Qtr ending Dec 1917 WEST Stanley J age 29 vol 2b page 842 registered Christchurch. Can this be him? Michael thinks not. Ralph.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Michael Johnson

West lived in Wandsworth, was married in London and is buried in Wandsworth. He may have been a patient at 3rd London General Hospital which was also at Wandsworth - many of the burials in Wandsworth (Earlsfield) Cemetery were from that hospital, and it might make some sense to send him to a local hospital. So I would expect to see Wandsworth as the registry location.

I checked the October 1917 War Diary for the 2nd Queen's, but he isn't mentioned. Before I spend any more money that way, I'm waiting to hear from the regimental museum.

And try as I might, I can't find the Christchurch 1917 Stanley West. Why he would be in Hampshire is beyond me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trottytrue

Could you please look up the two following Gt Uncles of mine.

Pte. George Farrell Royal Welsh Fusiliers number 5137 died 11th December 1914

Pte. James Farrell Royal Welsh Fusiliers number 7969 died 25th October 1914.

Also did you say that the War Pensions are a duplicate of those on Ancestry. Only I am looking for my fathers and cannot find his pension I know he had one. Would his have perhaps been burnt? Pte. David Gardner 201677.

Thankyou so much for your help.

Avril.

(To live in the hearts of those who live is not to die.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ryegate

Avril

Details are:

Name: Farrell, George

Regiment: Royal Welsh Fusiliers

Battalion: 1st Battalion

Birthplace: Chester

Enlisted: Wrexham

Residence: Chester

Rank: Private

Number: 5137

Date died: 11 December 1914

How died: Killed in Action

Theatre of War: France & Flanders

Death cert ref: 1914 I.28 11

Name: Farrell, James

Regiment: Royal Welsh Fusiliers

Battalion: 2nd Battalion

Birthplace: St Mary's, Chester

Enlisted: Frodsham

Rank: Private

Number: 7969

Date died: 25 October 1914

How died: Killed in Action

Theatre of War: France & Flanders

Death cert ref: France & Flanders

Presumably these are brothers. How awful for their parents to lose 2 sons within 2 months.

Ancestry does not hold a record of David Gardner's service or pension. That doesn't mean there is not one. You may still find it at Kew.

Regards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...