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Ryegate

For soldiers killed in action

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Guest mruk

RE: Terry Denham.

That's interesting. There is a cross on my Gt. Uncle's grave. He was Killed in Action on the First of July. What am I to assume? That his wife or family requested the design [which I find unlikely], or that he enlisted as Church of England, for whatever the reasons. Who decided the criteria for the motif which would be inscribed? Was there a choice offered to the relatives, and if not, can descendants request another headstone? Something more befitting, perhaps, than a religious icon that probably belies the man's birth and upbringing, and likely had very little meaning to him in life--let alone death? Of course, I have no real way of knowing that, or the circumstances under which he was buried beneath a cross, but it would be interesting to see what the situation is regarding the possibility of changing of the headstone to regiment and unit rather than that of a religious and denominational icon that I find suspect to say the least.

Dave

PS: Thanks for the offer, Rygate. I will PM you. Kind Regards, Dave.

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Terry Denham

The default design is a cross. The only options were to request a Star of David or no cross - unless the casualty was from a Non-Christian and Non-Jewish religion.

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Guest mruk

Thanks. I can only assume, then, that my family either didn't understand what was asked of them, or were a group of practical jokers, with the only other explanation being that my Gt. Uncle enlisted under the C of E or Catholic faith. I don't suppose it really matters that much anyway. As I always say, he's in good company.

Dave

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PBI

Some of the More Strict Christian Religous Sects do not recognise the Cross,and therefore this would maybe influence the Family of the Deceased into Having or not having a Religious Symbol on the Headstone.

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ian turner

Ryegate,

I should appreciate your lookup for:

185727 gunner Thomas Stanley

Royal Field Artillery

DoD: 11/8/17

Born: Staffs

Thanks

Ian

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Kevin Keeley

Ryegate,

Yours is a very kind offer. Could you look for 690232 Driver George Rylands who is shown on CWGC as being killed in Messopotania (Iraq) 20 March 1918. He is listed as being a member of 337 Brigade RFA although other sources suggest he was a member of 55th Division West Lancs on enlistment. He is shown buried in grave I.C.4 Baghad (North Gate0 War Cemetery. Any info gratefully received at kelouth@btintenet.com

Kevin Keeley

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Katie Elizabeth Stewart
I have been meaning to say that anyone seeking a death certificate reference for a soldier killed in action, I would be pleased to look for it on Find my Past.

Regards

Pte Fred Langhorne, 267389 1/6th Battn Northumberland Fusiliers. I know nothing whatever about him, and he was a comrade of my great-grandfather's. I even have a postcard with his photograph on it - I know where his death is commemorated, but I'm not sure if his body was ever found. Does that jeopardise the prospects for finding out who he was?

Thanks for your kindness.

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Katie Elizabeth Stewart

Sorry, I neglected to say he was killed in May 1918, somewhere on the Western Front! (Could be Spring Offensive?) Is it impossible with such sparse information? Commemorated on Soissons Memorial. Is that a clue?

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Ryegate

Hi to everyone who has requested a look up.

I promise I will do it, but please be patient as it may take a couple of days.

Regards

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Ryegate

Katie and Kevin, pm sent.

All

Have heard back from Find my Past re references for the death certificates of soliders who died in WW1.

They have informed me I need to look at the normal death registers to find out if a certifcate for these men exist.

That is not how I found my uncle's especially as I assumed that there would be no formal death cert. and have gone back to F.m.P. to inform them of that as I am certain they once had a facility that having located the record, you could then advance to get the death cert. reference. The certificates were issued by the War Office but can now be found at the records office.

I will wait to see if I have any further response from them and if they still say the same thing, I will search the death records for all the soldiers I have had requests for.

Please bear with me though as it will take a little while to do that.

However, I will definitely do it in the same order as requests have been made.

Regards

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Guest peterussell

Hi there.

this is a very kind thing you are doing.

Could you please look up my great uncle, his details are as follows:-

Sergeant Peter Russell MM

8th Seaforth Highlanders

Service No. S3709

Died 31st July 1917 aged 21

Kind regards

Pete Russell

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Diane Alden

Hi Ryegate,

This is a really kind offer I would appreciate a lookup for

Pte. Absolom Snowley

Coldstream Guards

7722

Died 14.9.1914

La Ferte-sous-Jouarre memorial

Thank you

Diane

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Ryegate

Hi all

I have received a mail from Find my Past and it appears I do have to go through the records for these death references. They are separate records and are for those killed during the war only.

This is clearly going to take a bit longer to do as I am sure you can imagine there are pages and pages and pages of them and they are not divided into months to make the searching a bit easier.

as mentioned though, I will check for everyone that has been asked for and will let you know if I do not find anything so you know the search is complete.

Samuel Andrews Reg. 140564. I have a bit of a query on this one as the number was not terribly clear but it is M.5 165. it is the 6 that was not clear but if you do order the cert. that should confirm.

Christopher Green Reg. 201746. Checked all the Christophers and none with this reg. number. However, I did find one Christopher Green out of alphabetical order. He was in the same regiment but his number is slightly different, i.e. 201756. Could be just one number in error or of course, it could be a completely different Christopher Green but died in same year and same Battalion. Seems likely this is the correct one. So, ref is 1917 I.54 127

Richard Edwards Reg 47678 Ref: 1917 I.30 239

George Edwards Reg 12349 Ref: 1915 G.2 23

Benjamin Smith Reg. 740

Checked all Benjamin Smiths. None with this regiment No. although I do note on his records that 'How died' is simply stated as 'Died'. Most are either killed in action or died of wounds. Only found one other that is 'Died' and that was apparently a suicide so maybe the certificate is held in the civilian death records.

Second batch will be posted later. But am off to Orkney tomorrow so it will be a couple of days before I can do any further look ups.

Regards

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Ryegate

Hi Peter

Details are:

Name: Russell, Peter

Regiment: Seaforth Highlanders (Ross-shire Buffs, The Duke of Albany's)

Battalion: 8th Battalion

Birthplace: Townend, Glasgow, Lanarkshire

Enlisted: Glasgow

Rank: SERGT

Number: S/3709

Date died: 31 July 1917

How died: Killed in Action

Theatre of War: France & Flanders

Supplementary Notes: M.M.

Regards

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Greyhound

Not wishing to be negative, but I understood that the Army death certificates do not give much information as to place or cause of death? Typically just something like "Killed in Action" and "France". I may be wrong, but this is the case for the ones I have seen.

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Ryegate

Hello Greyhound

Yes you are absolutely right but when researching the family tree the death certificate is as important as the birth certificate, or at least, it was to me.

I have to say that I was thrilled to get the death certificate of my uncle Walter James Burgess because in my naitivity, I had assumed there wouldn't be one. So in my opinion the £7 it cost me was well worth the effort of finding it.

Some people of course, may not need the certificate if they have the War Office details but I have those, and am still really glad that I have the certificate. In fact, I was thrilled I got it so it is down to a matter of opinion I suppose.

For anyone not wishing to have the death cert. ref. please let me know as it will save me searching for it and I can concentrate of any of those who do wish to have it.

Greyhound, I do appreciate what you are saying but when researching a family tree the death cert is the last thing that draws that person to a close. I have hundreds of them and consider them to be well worth the effort and cost of tracing them. I do not think your comment negative, it is just down to how much a person wants every detail.

Regards

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Ryegate

Hi Peter

The death cert ref for Peter Russell is:

1917 I2 287

The 'S' is missing from his regiment number as it is stated only as 3709 but I am sure this is the correct one as it is the only one there.

Regards

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Ryegate

Hi Everyone

I think I have now completed the requests for info. If I have inadvertently missed anyone out please let me know (It was not intentional).

When you have paid for a full package on Find my Past, it is a bit like having a subscription to the Gym. If you pay £500 for the year and only go once then effectively, it costs you £500. If you go 7 days a week, every week, then you pay a minimal cost for each visit.

I have paid for my annual subscription which expires in April 08. I use it very little for myself now as I have all the records (those that are currently available) for my family tree, so each use costs me a good % of my subscription.

If I can help anyone else it effectively means each visit costs less.

I am not wishing to impose this on anyone but I am happy to search for anything that will help anyone in their research as long as I have unlimited access to the FMP data.

I cannot be responsible for the limited information the records hold as in the death cert ref. for those killed in action during WW1. I have merely offered to search out the available details which includes the death cert ref: by making further searches. Presumably, those not interested in that information, would not have ask me to search the records so I hope I am doing a bit of a service.

Since joining the Forum I have had unlimited help from Forum members. I would still be totally in the dark without the generous help I have recieved and the information given that I previously had no knowledge of. I cannot thank everyone enough and I certainly cannot offer such valuable information as I have been so generously given. This is my very small contribution to offer something that may be of value to Forum members. So I hope the information given so far has been of some value to those who have asked for it.

Regards

PS Find my Past has census, military, BDMs, Passenger lists leaving the UK and Migration records some of which I have never accessed but they are there should anyone need help with those.

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greymarehill

I notice that you have rather a lot of requests but would you mind looking up 3 more?

I am on Ancestry but I can't find any death certificates - I think I am missing something - were they recorded and held separately?

S/26881 Rifleman James Albert Victor Wilson wounded on 12th October 1917 died in Le Treport on 16th October 1917 age 20 1st Battalion Rifle Brigade

202549 Private Thomas Kennett Stephen Wilson died 26 April 1918 age 23 1st Battalion London Regiment

43615 Private Edward L Walkling died 23 August 1918 age 31? 2nd Battalion South Staffs

Thanks Yvonne

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Ryegate

Hi Greymarehill

Details found are:

Name: Wilson, James Albert Victor

Regiment: Rifle Brigade (the Prince Consort's Own)

Battalion: 1st Battalion

Birthplace: Canterbury

Enlisted: Dartford, Kent

Residence: South Darenth, Kent

Rank: Rifleman

Number: S/26881

Date died: 16 October 1917

How died: Died of Wounds

Theatre of War: France & Flanders

Supplementary Notes: Formerly 13/18273, T.R

Can find nothing for Thomas Wilson but will take another look tomorrow

Name: Walkling, Edward Leonard

Regiment: South Staffordshire Regiment

Battalion: 2nd Battalion

Birthplace: South Darenth, Kent

Rank: Private

Number: 43615

Date died: 23 August 1918

How died: Killed in Action

Theatre of War: France & Flanders

Supplementary Notes: Formerly 51316 Suffolk Regt.

will look for the death cert ref tomorrow, so will post any I am able to find

Regards

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Ryegate

Hi Yvonne

I meant to say that as far as I know, Ancestry (and I am also a subscriber) does not hold the death records for WW1 military. Find my Past does but I understand not all those who were killed in action have a certificate issued. So far I have been lucky in finding almost all of those requested.

I will check again for Thomas Wilson tomorrow and also search for the death cert ref which you can then use to purchase a certificate through the usual channels i.e. GRO

Regards

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John_Hartley
were they recorded and held separately?

Yvonne

Yes. Overseas deaths are recorded separately from UK deaths and are not available via Ancestry.

A death certificate can be ordered online from the General Register Office. You do not need the GRO reference number to order a certificate (you will need year of death), although it will reduce the fee from £10 to £7 if you do have it.

As Grace indicates earlier, an overseas death certificate is unlikely to give any details of the cause of death.

For info, the full overseas list for WW1 can be purchaed on CD from S & N Genealogy Supplies at about £30.

John

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joan bourgeois

Hello Ryegate,

Thank you for your very kind offer, I would appreciate a look-up for my GFather.

GEORGE SMYTH

Royal Irish Rifles

Reg.# 9001

Joan

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John_Hartley
Is it impossible with such sparse information?

Not at all, Katie.

You've obviously picked up on Fred's listing on the War Graves Commission website. His commemoration on the Soissons Memorial confirms he has no known grave - maybe he never had one or maybe it was later lost.

A separate thread asking for info on the 6/NFs on the date should produce a result from someone with the regiment's official history - there are a number of Pals with specific interest and knowledge in the NFs.

The only info I can add from Soldiers Died in the Great War is that he was born in Hull and enlisted in Beverley. His death certificate is only likely to just say "Killed in Action" but should you want to apply for it, the GRO reference is I 30 13.

John

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punjab612

Just a note of clarification.

The majority of information which Ryegate is very kindly supplying is from a look up of Soldiers Died which is available on findmypast (albeit with somewhat limited searching capability compared with the CD-ROM). The index of death certificate merely gives name, service no, regiment/corps, year of death and the reference no you can use to order a copy of the death certificate from the GRO. It is only searchable on surname, not year of death, service no etc.

As John points out you do not need this reference to order the certificate but it will save you a few pounds if you have it. If you are ordering a certificate without the reference make sure you stipulate it is an Army War Death.

Peter

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