jainvince Posted 6 August , 2007 Share Posted 6 August , 2007 Some time ago a picture was found and entered into the forum on Borry Farm. On 06.09.1917 the Lancs Fusiliers were unseccessfully engaged in trying to capture Borry Farm, Beck House Farm and Iberian Farm. Were the defensive positions at Beck House and Iberian Farms similar to Borry Farm. Has anybody got picture of either Beck House or Iberian Farm? regards Bernard P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarningPluke Posted 30 December , 2016 Share Posted 30 December , 2016 (edited) Jainvince I visited this site in April 2016 in search of Borry Farm as this is where we think my Gt Grandfather (41038, Sgt. Richard Westgate) won his MM (Gazette November 19th, 1917). My Gt Grandfather's records were destroyed during WW2 but know that he was in the 8th Inniskilling Fusiliers when they attacked Borry Farm along with the 7th Btn in August 1917. The picture was taken from where we think Borry Farm stood, looking in a South West direction towards Ypres. I have also seen pictures on Google of Beck Farm House with a German concrete pillbox constructed within it's ruins too. I hope this is of some help some 9 years and 4 months after your post. Edited 1 January , 2017 by ScarningPluke Misspelling of Beck (Beak) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebu Posted 31 December , 2016 Share Posted 31 December , 2016 On 30/12/2016 at 19:38, ScarningPluke said: I have also seen pictures on Google of Beak Farm House with a German concert pillbox constructed within it's ruins too SP, if you know of a picture of Beck House, or a construction in the ruins, would love to see it. Have never seen one. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarningPluke Posted 1 January , 2017 Share Posted 1 January , 2017 15 hours ago, mebu said: SP, if you know of a picture of Beck House, or a construction in the ruins, would love to see it. Have never seen one. Peter Peter Here are the images I have, which I believe are Beck Farm House. I have tried to find my source on Google so that you can follow the trail but it seems as if they have disappeared! I have also attached an overlay map showing the positions of the farm houses then on top of a current Google map. My photo was taken from the top right corner of the field ('Fm') Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebu Posted 1 January , 2017 Share Posted 1 January , 2017 On 30/12/2016 at 19:38, ScarningPluke said: I have also seen pictures on Google of Beak Farm House with a German concert pillbox constructed within it's ruins too SP, if you know of a picture of Beck House, or a construction in the ruins, would love to see it. Have never seen one. Peter SP, thanks for posting the photos, however this is not Beck (Kaminhof) but Vampire (Strohgut). These marked on map attached. Thanks, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 1 January , 2017 Share Posted 1 January , 2017 Another German map extract attached. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarningPluke Posted 1 January , 2017 Share Posted 1 January , 2017 Thanks Peter for the correction and of course the map. It has far more detail than any others I have seen of the area. Do you have a particular interest in Borry/Beck/Vampire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebu Posted 1 January , 2017 Share Posted 1 January , 2017 (edited) On 30/12/2016 at 19:38, ScarningPluke said: I have also seen pictures on Google of Beak Farm House with a German concert pillbox constructed within it's ruins too SP, if you know of a picture of Beck House, or a construction in the ruins, would love to see it. Have never seen one. Peter SP, thanks for posting the photos, however this is not Beck (Kaminhof) but Vampire (Strohgut). These marked on map attached. Thanks, Peter SP No I don't have any special interest in Beck/Borry: as a Mancunian I have a bit of general interest as 42 Div had a go here, also general defence constructions. Peter PS on an earlier thread on this subject - referred to by jainvince in the original post above - I posted a pic of the farmer of Beck House (Ter Beck) when he helped me work out the location of the original buildings/pillbox. Edited 1 January , 2017 by mebu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainvince Posted 2 August , 2017 Author Share Posted 2 August , 2017 There was a lot of information and discussion on the Ypres Battlefield Forum (the text is still there but not the pictures) about the farms and area surrounding it. I am going to post some pictures of Borry Farm and its approaches as well as some trench maps and overlays which have been previously available on YBF and GWF. Borry Farm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainvince Posted 2 August , 2017 Author Share Posted 2 August , 2017 I am very interested in these farms as many local lads serving with the Lancashire Fusiliers died in trying to take them on the 6th September 1917. The following is the location of Borry Farm from the road taken some time ago. And below is a TM overlay showing the location of the farms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainvince Posted 2 August , 2017 Author Share Posted 2 August , 2017 and here is the another two TMs of the area, the first being a German Map And here an allied map Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainvince Posted 2 August , 2017 Author Share Posted 2 August , 2017 I often wondered why so many men had died trying to attack these Bunkers and then debate occurred about the camouflage the Germans employed. This shown in the photograph below which shows the area in front of the farms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainvince Posted 2 August , 2017 Author Share Posted 2 August , 2017 Although most of the bunkers in the area have disappeared the tops of two can be seen just behind the Scottish Monument further along the road to the west. Another can be seen in the field north of the road between those and the location of Beck House Farm. I have seen the two but not visited the other one as it is in the middle of fields. If it works, this link shows the posts on Borry Farm etc https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/ypres1917fr/search.php?keywords=Borry&fid[0]=5 Bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainvince Posted 2 August , 2017 Author Share Posted 2 August , 2017 After numerous attempts with some partial successes followed by the Germans retaking the bunkers they eventually fell on 20th September 1917 after considerable loss of life and numerous wounded and missing soldiers. The 2/5th East Lancs were given the particularly unpleasant task of burying the fallen, many of whom had lain on the battlefield or months. Bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainvince Posted 2 August , 2017 Author Share Posted 2 August , 2017 SP Excuse my Photoshopping you picture but I wanted to see a bit more detail. Can you advise where the track is that you were parked on, please? Bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarningPluke Posted 4 August , 2017 Share Posted 4 August , 2017 Hi Bernard No worries regarding the picture. I'm glad that it has been of interest. I will try to post a map with the location and few other pictures from the area. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOBE Posted 4 August , 2017 Share Posted 4 August , 2017 I've been in the area a few times lately myself (my Grandfather was in the 4th Regiment South African Infantry when they took Borry Farm) have a few pictures of empty fields! Also Beck House Farm is now completely demolished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainvince Posted 5 August , 2017 Author Share Posted 5 August , 2017 Kobe Is that to do with extensions to the brickworks? I went a few years back and there were bits of reinforced concrete everywhere which could have been WW1 remains? One does wonder about the missing in the area but I understand there was considerable efforts to locate the dead on the Battlefield around these farms. Bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOBE Posted 5 August , 2017 Share Posted 5 August , 2017 7 hours ago, jainvince said: Kobe Is that to do with extensions to the brickworks? I went a few years back and there were bits of reinforced concrete everywhere which could have been WW1 remains? One does wonder about the missing in the area but I understand there was considerable efforts to locate the dead on the Battlefield around these farms. Bernard jainvince, Not sure of the reason for the demolition but extension of the brickworks seems the most likely explanation. I know they found three South Africans (4th Regiment) about five years ago when previous works were being done on the brickworks and they were re-interred at Tyne Cot. Here is a screenshot from Google Streetview compared with the actual location when I visited on 31/07/2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jainvince Posted 7 August , 2017 Author Share Posted 7 August , 2017 Looking at street view, the quarries have certainly encroached onto where last time I visited was still fields. Bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 27 November , 2017 Share Posted 27 November , 2017 Dear Jainvince, Please forgive my amateurism at this business - chat nets are not normally my thing. I am particularly interested in the map you posted on 2 August - not sure of the year. You headed the map 'And here an allied map'. I assume the allied foremost front line is that running north from Fresenburg to Bank Farm. Are you able to tell me the date represented by the allied positions here? My interest is that my wife's father, Captain Robert Shaw, 7th Kings (Liverpool Regiment) lost his life on 20 September 1917 'leading his company on the attack on Iberian Farm'. Thank you for your time, Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOBE Posted 10 December , 2017 Share Posted 10 December , 2017 On 27/11/2017 at 18:20, Alan Bennett said: Dear Jainvince, Please forgive my amateurism at this business - chat nets are not normally my thing. I am particularly interested in the map you posted on 2 August - not sure of the year. You headed the map 'And here an allied map'. I assume the allied foremost front line is that running north from Fresenburg to Bank Farm. Are you able to tell me the date represented by the allied positions here? My interest is that my wife's father, Captain Robert Shaw, 7th Kings (Liverpool Regiment) lost his life on 20 September 1917 'leading his company on the attack on Iberian Farm'. Thank you for your time, Alan Hi Alan, obviously I'm not Jainvince but if you want a map showing allied positions on 20th September 1917 I have V CORPS artillery barrage map for that day which shows the approximate British front line and the forming up line (which was slightly forwards into no-man's land). It doesn't show individual unit positions but it does show Iberian Farm etc. Would that be of interest to you? I will have to edit it down a bit to avoid getting in trouble with the Crown Copyright people though! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 12 December , 2017 Share Posted 12 December , 2017 (edited) On 27/11/2017 at 18:20, Alan Bennett said: I am particularly interested in the map you posted on 2 August - not sure of the year. You headed the map 'And here an allied map'. I assume the allied foremost front line is that running north from Fresenburg to Bank Farm. Are you able to tell me the date represented by the allied positions here? That specific trench map is actually a Belgian Army 1:20,000 scale trench map (printed on a French base using 'gifted' French presses) simply entitled 'Ypres' and dated 1st July 1917 so the extract doesn't actually show any allied positions or front line in printed format. However ... the pencilled in annotation would appear to illustrate the frontline as it was by the evening of 20th September 1917. Dave Edited 12 December , 2017 by CROONAERT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 8 August , 2018 Share Posted 8 August , 2018 Thread title - BECK HOUSE AND IBERIAN FARM My personal interest is that my Grandfather was killed in the attack on 6 September. He was George McDermott, 1st/6th Lancs Fusiliers. Accounts are that when 1st/6th attacked Iberian Farm [to the north] that an attack on Beck House [to the left] failed, and so 1st/6th took fire from both fronts [the north and the left]. I believe it was the worst day for casualties in the history of the Lancs Fusiliers. I have seen the "War Diary" entry for 6th and 7th Sep. Death was "routine". Part of the Diary entry for 7th Sep reads "organised games". wow. Google earth shows Iberian Farm to be in the position it was in 1917. You can have a car journey [as you can anywhere on Google Earth] along the road on which Iberian Farm house "is". The house is there but there is no sign of the farm name. It is a strange feeling. I have been unable to find anything quoting the name "Iberian" Farm in modern times. The photo, which I hope is now attached, was taken in Rochdale on his last home leave, only shortly before 6th September. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 8 August , 2018 Share Posted 8 August , 2018 2 hours ago, AdmiralTrevor said: My personal interest is that my Grandfather was killed in the attack on 6 September. ... The photo, which I hope is now attached, was taken in Rochdale on his last home leave, only shortly before 6th September. Are you sure either the photograph subject or date has been correctly identified? As that has all the appearance of a pre-war photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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